questions about per stirpes?

[mulchman22]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?


Virginia

1. What does this mean:

I give and devise all the reminder of my real estate to my three sons, A, B, and C, for life share and share alike. On the death of each of my said sons, his interest in the real estate to pass to his descendents, per stirpes.

2.

If A and B pass but C is still alive, does A, and B's children have as much right to the property as C? and how does C's life time rights work?

AND once all 3 have passed:

3. what happens if A, B, and C have different numbers of children?
If A has 5 children and B has 2 children and C has 2 children:
does B's and C's children get a larger percentage than A's children after all 3 sons have passed?

 

[curb1]

What type of real estate is this? There are going to be many co-owners. Does everyone get along? Does everyone want to sell the property? Does anyone want to sell the property?

This is a good explanation for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_stirpes

 

[mulchman22]

What type of real estate is this? There are going to be many co-ownersthis is a Farm with a house



Does everyone get along?

right now BUT I THINK that is about to CHANGE

Does everyone want to sell the property?

NO

Does anyone want to sell the property?

unsure,

as thing start to unfold with A and B passing on

A's children seem to have there own hidden agenda

I thought that with C still alive and having lifetime rights that nothing could be done till C passed. then after C passes, I have no idea how the split would occur:
does A's 5 children split 1/3
B's 2 children spilt 1/3 and
C's children split 1/3


OR

do all 9 descendents get a even share

 

[anteater]

1. What does this mean:

I give and devise all the reminder of my real estate to my three sons, A, B, and C, for life share and share alike. On the death of each of my said sons, his interest in the real estate to pass to his descendents, per stirpes.

There is no context here. What is the situation? Has the testator passed away? Is the estate being administered? How is the property titled now?

Who wrote the will? An attorney?

If the estate is being administered and I were the administrator, I would be asking the court to interpret that provision. To my reading, it is a muddle and ambiguous.


[As to the narrow question of the meaning of per stirpes... The Wikipedia article that curb referenced explains it well. Normally, the phrase/concept would be used to direct what happens to a bequest/devise if the stated beneficiary predeceases the testator. In that context, your interpretation would be correct: the predeceased beneficiary's descendants take what the predeceased beneficiary would have received. But, as I said above, its use in the provision you quoted is a muddle.]

 

[mulchman22]

There is no context here. What is the situation?

This was my grandmothers will, B passed in 2002 and A is in Hospice care not expected to many it more than a couple of days. Some of A's kids are tring to create there own agendas for the house..... But C thought he had Lifetime use of the house and farm till he passed.

Has the testator passed away?

Yes, in 1994



Is the estate being administered?

Administrator Was B and he passed in 2002

How is the property titled now?

UNknown

Who wrote the will? An attorney?

Attorney



If the estate is being administered and I were the administrator, I would be asking the court to interpret that provision. To my reading, it is a muddle and ambiguous.

what a mess

 

[curb1]

1) There needs to be an around the table talk about this with everyone involved. With a lack of consensus, you will need legal guidance. There is a good chance you will need legal guidance even if there is a consensus.

2) The first thing,without cost will be to go to the courthouse and see how the property is titled.

3) When you called the attorney who authored the will, what did s/he say about this?

 

[mulchman22]

Attnory that did the will has passed also. His son is still there in the practice

 

[tranquility]

Per stirpes means, basically, per lineage.

I give and devise all the reminder of my real estate to my three sons, A, B, and C, for life share and share alike. On the death of each of my said sons, his interest in the real estate to pass to his descendents, per stirpes.

A, B and C each get 1/3.

If A and B die, leaving A1 and A2, B1 as children. The lineage of A gets the same as the lineage of B. So, C gets 1/3, B1 gets 1/3 with A1 and A2 each getting 1/6. (1/3 divided among 2 people.)

Once the inheritance happens, the will is irrelevant regarding future events. That means that if C were to die now, his will would guide and not this one.

 

[anteater]

How is the property titled now?

UNknown

OK, you need to find out.

I would suggest to you that the will's provision is now water under the bridge. (Or, maybe, over the dam, in this situation.) B, the estate administrator, must have made/received an interpretation of that provision and then distributed the property accordingly. While I don't want to say "never," I doubt that a court is going to permit re-opening interpretation of the will if one of the parties now doesn't like the interpretation.

 

[anteater]

Per stirpes means, basically, per lineage.


A, B and C each get 1/3.

If A and B die, leaving A1 and A2, B1 as children. The lineage of A gets the same as the lineage of B. So, C gets 1/3, B1 gets 1/3 with A1 and A2 each getting 1/6. (1/3 divided among 2 people.)

Once the inheritance happens, the will is irrelevant regarding future events. That means that if C were to die now, his will would guide and not this one.

What I find hard to believe is the inclusion of that "...to my three sons, A, B, and C, for life..." wording. What the heck is that supposed to mean? (I am assuming that this is a direct quote.)

One might interpret that to mean that A, B, and C were only to receive a life estate. But then you have the problem of the indeterminate remaindermen - "...his descendents, per stirpes."

Or one could interpret that to mean that A, B, and C receive full ownership, but the testator is trying to control what happens after A, B, and C pass away.

Yuck!

 

[mulchman22]

I wrote the verbage out exact (just sub'ing A,B, and C for the names of the sons)