Rights of survivorship

[mrs sankofa]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Al

My friend passed away and left her male friend in charge of everything. He told the family that he has the right to her bank account and her property, but that he was going to ask them first if he could have it. The family went ahead and filed friend's Will without giving the male friend bank account or property. The male friend kept all the friend's mail and swears he is entitled to everything. Does this mean he can overturn the Will and claim all my late friend's assets for himself? What will happen to the family's claim on the assets that are listed in the Will? There were other bank accounts and mutual funds probably secured through a brokerage firm. My friend was on Social Security and had a pension and also collected royalties from properties.

This sounds as if this male friend has a document that will say Joint Tenants in Common With Rights of Survivorship from my reading. I feel the male friend should have just spoken up and showed them proof that he was entitled. This seems like a potential mes to me or is it?

 

[curb1]

Has probate been started? If not this should have been done yesterday. You do have a mess until this is sorted out legally.

 

[mrs sankofa]

Yes papers were filed with probate court last month; June.

 

[anteater]

This does not seem complicated. If the accounts were jointly owned with right of survivorship, then the male friend is now the owner. He doesn't have to ask permission, speak up, or show proof to anybody. (Well, he would have to provide the financial institutions with proof of who he is and a death certificate.)

The joint ownership with right of survivorship takes precedence over any provision in the will regarding those assets. But, the appointed representative of the estate should have the legal authority to confirm the form of ownership with the financial institutions.

 

[mrs sankofa]

So in essence, the family shouldn't have filed a Will because the male friend has rights to it all?

No, he didn't have to explain anything to anyone it seems. Just let them file and lose their attorney fee. It doesn't phase him in the least apparently.

Thanks for your input.

 

[mrs sankofa]

No it's me assuming that the male friend has Joint Ownerhip with Rights of Survivorship from what I have read on legal sites. Armed with this sort of agreement would be his reason for not relinquishing the funds in the checkbook, asking for the property and all assets as if he has an entitlement to it all.

I would think he would just say up front that everything is legal to the family. But what do I know? However, like you said he will have to show proof to the appropriate parties.

The friend's Will just named beneficiaries and their shares, but here he comes and says no, he's entitled to the bank account and the property.

It seems bypassing probate is the best route to go in many instances.

 

[anteater]

It is unusual, but not unheard of, that a person co-owns all their assets.

(I'm a bit uncertain what you mean by an "agreement." Co-owning - joint tenancy - is on an asset by asset basis.)

But the only way the family can find out what is hot air and what is not is by probating the will and one of them gaining appointment as the estate's personal representative.

 

[Dandy Don]

It's a very common mistake that people make--adding someone to their account jointly and then forgetting to take the name off. At the time the name was added, she might not have foreseen her death AND the fact that the money automatically became his when the death occurred. And HE made the mistake (or was it more deliberate than that?) of asking the family's permission when he really didn't have to do that since he knew the money was his.

 

[anteater]

It's a very common mistake that people make--adding someone to their account jointly and then forgetting to take the name off.

And how does one "take the name off" after you have made someone a co-owner of an account?

 

[Dandy Don]

Ask the clerk at the bank--she will be happy to advise you on the form to fill out to do that.

 

[anteater]

Ask the clerk at the bank--she will be happy to advise you on the form to fill out to do that.

So, the bank clerk is going to participate in stealing from a co-owner, eh?

 

[Dandy Don]

Silly YOU--it is the account owner who can designate or remove anyone from the bank account. It's a simple concept--you can add and you can also remove. Now come on, find something else to argue about. We're waiting.

 

[mrs sankofa]

It was a BIG MISTAKE for him to ask permission of the family to have the money in the bank account and the house as this seemed to raise red flags more than anything else. I don't know whether asking them for these two items was his intention to hurry them along in probating the Will because it did in essence do that!! He asked for the amount in the savings though his name appears joint with hers on the checking and there is a CD that doesn't say whose names are on there, but I assume since everything else in that bank has his name on it then this belongs to him too. He truly should have gone and gotten what was his with the death certificate and that would have been that.

Asset by asset basis may save some of the assets in her Will for the other family members as she had quite a few accounts with quite a few places. Diversified she was indeed!

I don't believe my friend thought she was going to die anyway soon, but she became incapacitated and ended up in a nursing home. Her Will had made it specific that she wanted her niece to receive over 2/3 and to be fair by the other nieces as their mother (her sister) and her brother were both deceased. This niece will share and share alike with the others if there is anything left to share!!!

It's not hard to remove a name from a joint checking/savings account either. The owner of the account goes into the bank and shows the bank rep that they are the owner of the account and want a name removed and off the name goes.

 

[justalayman]

It's not hard to remove a name from a joint checking/savings account either. The owner of the account goes into the bank and shows the bank rep that they are the owner of the account and want a name removed and off the name goes.

I was reading your current thread and was reading of your situation where i ran across this.

Something you and dandy don seem to be missing here:

once you put a person on as a co-owner, you are both owners with neither having superior rights. As such, neither can remove the other person from the account. From my personal experience, neither can close the account without the others approval either.

Now, if you have an account in your name only with an authorized user, you can remove their rights to access your account but you cannot remove them from an account which they jointly own with you. How would the bank know whose money is whose? In essence, they would be doing what anteater suggested; helping you steal the other co-owners money.

 

[anteater]

In essence, they would be doing what anteater suggested; helping you steal the other co-owners money.

After The Dandy's oxymoronic reply, I figured that it wasn't worth another response.