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pfwest

Member
What is the name of your state?WA
My mother in law passed away and left a good amount of money, There is also an RV registered in her and my husbands name. Now the other siblings are telling us that the RV belongs to the estate, others are telling us that the RV is ours now, we only have to pay taxes on it. What is the truth?
 


S

seniorjudge

Guest
It belongs to her husband if they owned it as joint tenants with the right of survivorship.

If the husband is dead and died first, then it goes to the people she listed in her will to get it.

If she doesn't have a will, then it goes to her heirs at law: mother, father, brother, sister, son, daughter, whatever.

The specifics can be found in Washington's intestate succession (fancy lawyer talk fer you ain't got no will) law:



RCW 11.04.015
Descent and distribution of real and personal estate.
The net estate of a person dying intestate, or that portion thereof with respect to which the person shall have died intestate, shall descend subject to the provisions of RCW 11.04.250 and 11.02.070, and shall be distributed as follows:

(1) Share of surviving spouse. The surviving spouse shall receive the following share:

(a) All of the decedent's share of the net community estate; and

(b) One-half of the net separate estate if the intestate is survived by issue; or

(c) Three-quarters of the net separate estate if there is no surviving issue, but the intestate is survived by one or more of his parents, or by one or more of the issue of one or more of his parents; or

(d) All of the net separate estate, if there is no surviving issue nor parent nor issue of parent.

(2) Shares of others than surviving spouse. The share of the net estate not distributable to the surviving spouse, or the entire net estate if there is no surviving spouse, shall descend and be distributed as follows:

(a) To the issue of the intestate; if they are all in the same degree of kinship to the intestate, they shall take equally, or if of unequal degree, then those of more remote degree shall take by representation.

(b) If the intestate not be survived by issue, then to the parent or parents who survive the intestate.

(c) If the intestate not be survived by issue or by either parent, then to those issue of the parent or parents who survive the intestate; if they are all in the same degree of kinship to the intestate, they shall take equally, or, if of unequal degree, then those of more remote degree shall take by representation.

(d) If the intestate not be survived by issue or by either parent, or by any issue of the parent or parents who survive the intestate, then to the grandparent or grandparents who survive the intestate; if both maternal and paternal grandparents survive the intestate, the maternal grandparent or grandparents shall take one-half and the paternal grandparent or grandparents shall take one-half.

(e) If the intestate not be survived by issue or by either parent, or by any issue of the parent or parents or by any grandparent or grandparents, then to those issue of any grandparent or grandparents who survive the intestate; taken as a group, the issue of the maternal grandparent or grandparents shall share equally with the issue of the paternal grandparent or grandparents, also taken as a group; within each such group, all members share equally if they are all in the same degree of kinship to the intestate, or, if some be of unequal degree, then those of more remote degree shall take by representation.

[1974 ex.s. c 117 � 6; 1967 c 168 � 2; 1965 ex.s. c 55 � 1; 1965 c 145 �
11.04.015. Formerly RCW 11.04.020, 11.04.030, 11.04.050.]
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
seniorjudge said:
It belongs to her husband if they owned it as joint tenants with the right of survivorship.
SJ, I think you misread what the original poster said:

pfwest said:
What is the name of your state?WA
My mother in law passed away and left a good amount of money, There is also an RV registered in her and my husbands name.
To me, it appears that the RV was registered in the names of the MIL and husband of the original poster, the husband being the son of the MIL.

If that's the case, doesn't the death of the MIL mean that the MIL's son now owns the RV? It's not part of the estate because the RV reverts to ownership of the survivor on the title.
 
Last edited:
S

seniorjudge

Guest
As I said before: It belongs to her husband if they owned it as joint tenants with the right of survivorship.

To make it a little clearer: It belongs to her (poster's) husband if they owned it as joint tenants with the right of survivorship.

You're right; the answer was unclear.
 

WA-Probate.com

Junior Member
RV: Reply

What is the name of your state? WA

My mother in law passed away and left a good amount of money, There is also an RV registered in her and my husbands name. Now the other siblings are telling us that the RV belongs to the estate, others are telling us that the RV is ours now, we only have to pay taxes on it. What is the truth?

*****​

Dear pfwest,

1. While the RV may be registered in your mother-in-law & your husband's names, there is a critical piece of information missing here: Did her husband survive or pre-decease her? And there will be a number of facts that will be needed thereafter, depending on your answer to this question.

2. And another critical piece of information that's missing is: How is title held to the RV? Granted it is in the names of mother-in-law & your husband, but how? As joint tenants? As tenants-in-common? Etc.

3. And looking behind what the actual title to the RV says, another missing piece of information is: How was the RV acquired, specifically, who paid for it and with what funds? Under Washington law, how an asset is actually titled is only presumptive and not conclusive. As your husband's wife, you could in fact be a part owner of the RV, for example, if your husband contributed community funds towards its purchase.

4. And another piece of missing information is: Did mother-in-law die testate (ie, with a Will)? And if so, did her Will provide for "who gets the RV"? Under Washington law, a Will can be used to over-ride disposition on death based on the form in which title is held.

I regret being a "two-handed" lawyer (ie, maybe this & maybe that), but from what you've provided so far, the RV in fact might go to the Red Cross! If you'd be willing to provide further info, we could narrow its disposition down.

Sincerely,

WA-Probate.com
 

pfwest

Member
WA-Probate.com said:
What is the name of your state? WA

My mother in law passed away and left a good amount of money, There is also an RV registered in her and my husbands name. Now the other siblings are telling us that the RV belongs to the estate, others are telling us that the RV is ours now, we only have to pay taxes on it. What is the truth?

*****​

Dear pfwest,

1. While the RV may be registered in your mother-in-law & your husband's names, there is a critical piece of information missing here: Did her husband survive or pre-decease her? And there will be a number of facts that will be needed thereafter, depending on your answer to this question.

2. And another critical piece of information that's missing is: How is title held to the RV? Granted it is in the names of mother-in-law & your husband, but how? As joint tenants? As tenants-in-common? Etc.

3. And looking behind what the actual title to the RV says, another missing piece of information is: How was the RV acquired, specifically, who paid for it and with what funds? Under Washington law, how an asset is actually titled is only presumptive and not conclusive. As your husband's wife, you could in fact be a part owner of the RV, for example, if your husband contributed community funds towards its purchase.

4. And another piece of missing information is: Did mother-in-law die testate (ie, with a Will)? And if so, did her Will provide for "who gets the RV"? Under Washington law, a Will can be used to over-ride disposition on death based on the form in which title is held.

I regret being a "two-handed" lawyer (ie, maybe this & maybe that), but from what you've provided so far, the RV in fact might go to the Red Cross! If you'd be willing to provide further info, we could narrow its disposition down.

Sincerely,

WA-Probate.com
OK. MIL and FIL bought the RV in 1987, with their money no credit or anything. In 1992 when FIL became ill it was just sitting outside the carport and was used as an extra bedroom when too many people visited at once.In 1997 my husband moved in with his parents as his father was realy ill an looked after his dad and mom. I came in my husband life in 2000 just after FIL passed away.In 2000 FIL passed away and MIL kept the RV. In 2003 my husband bought new belts etc to make sure that the RV was kept up so that we could travel. Mom said then that we were the only ones that would enjoy the RV so she put my husband on the title, we maintained it so we could take trips with it. Yes MIL left a will, stating that everything need to be divided by the 5 boys, that will was made up in early to mid eighty's even before FIL passed away. We dont know if it is joint or common as we cannot get into the house and thats where the title is.
 

WA-Probate.com

Junior Member
RV: Reply

State? WA

OK. MIL and FIL bought the RV in 1987, with their money no credit or anything. In 1992 when FIL became ill it was just sitting outside the carport and was used as an extra bedroom when too many people visited at once.In 1997 my husband moved in with his parents as his father was realy ill an looked after his dad and mom. I came in my husband life in 2000 just after FIL passed away.In 2000 FIL passed away and MIL kept the RV. In 2003 my husband bought new belts etc to make sure that the RV was kept up so that we could travel. Mom said then that we were the only ones that would enjoy the RV so she put my husband on the title, we maintained it so we could take trips with it. Yes MIL left a will, stating that everything need to be divided by the 5 boys, that will was made up in early to mid eighty's even before FIL passed away. We dont know if it is joint or common as we cannot get into the house and thats where the title is.

*****​

Dear pfwest,

I will assume all the players reside & all the transactions occurred in Washington.

1987: H & W bought RV. Washington law presumes a purchase made by a married couple is their community property, & I'll assume that here. It is unstated, but I will assume that they took title as Joint Tenants. If no form of holding title was expressed, it was their community property.

2000: When H died:
The RV would have passed to W if title in Joint Tenancy.
The RV would have passed to W if H died intestate (ie, without a Will).
H's 1/2 community interest in the RV would have passed to whomever H specified in his Will if he died testate (ie, with a Will).
I will assume H's interest in the RV passed to W upon his death, altho this is not certain.

2003: W retitles RV in her name + your husband's name, probably as Joints Tenants, altho this is not stated. This is a very common transaction between an older widowed parent & an adult child --- the problem is that it is unclear what parent intended. Usually, what is intended is that this tranaction be what is known as a "Will substitute," that the parent is not intending to make a present gift of the property but only that it pass to the adult child at the parent's eventual death. Unfortunately & ambiguously, the law provides that without further information, when property is put into joint tenancy form, such as probably happened here, a present gift is made --- here, a gift of half of the property, to take effect now, now later, at the parent's later death. As you can imagine, this has resulted in numerous lawsuits, attempting to come to terms with what the parent intended. Furthermore, it is possible altho unlikely that parent may have intended only that the RV pass to your husband to avoid having to probate it --- on the understanding that your husband was to share it with the parent's other heirs, ie, your husband's siblings. What a mess & the making of a lawsuit! Putting property into Joint Tenancy form is cheap & easy, but it can really come back & bite you at death, just as you are now discovering. For further information about Joint Tenancies, see: B. Joint Tenancies, on:

http://www.wa-probate.com/Avoid-Probate/index.html

From what you say, it appears that W wanted your husband to have the RV at her death. Arguments for:

1. He put money into keeping it up.
2. He put time into keeping it up.
3. He was the only sib who expressed interested in it.
4. She said she wanted him to have it at her death.
Query: Do the other sibs acknowledge any of this? Were they present when she said "I want your husband to get it at my death?"

And so she put his name on the title, probably in Joint Tenancy form. You can see, however, that it is unclear what she actually intended, and your husband's sibs are now raising this issue, attempting to have the RV characterized as a probate asset, so it will fall into her estate & be divided among all the sibs, as her beneficiaries under her Will.

Assuming that the RV was put into Joint Tenancy form, the presumption will be that the Joint Tenancy form should be upheld, resulting in the RV passing to your husband as the surviving joint tenant. The sibs will have the burden of proof to show that this was not what she intended --- for example, that she really didn't realize what she was doing when she re-registered the RV; or that your husband prepared all the paperwork for the re-registration, and so it should be ignored due to your husband's undue influence over his frail & doddering mother; or that she put it in Joint Tenancy form "for convenience only," in order to avoid its probate; etc.

Your husband's sibs have an arguable case, and in situations like this, what often results is a negotiated settlement.

One alternative is to let the PR probate the RV and then for your husband to request a copy of the Inventory after 3 months following the PR's appointment. The RV should be listed there, and listed as a probate asset, ie, its joint tenancy form being ignored. Your husband could then file an objection with the Court, effectively asking the Court to determine the validity of the RV's being characterized as a probate asset, instead of upholding is Joint Tenancy form of title. For further information on this, see: E. Bond & Inventory & Appraisement Issues on:

http://www.wa-probate.com/Heirs-Beneficiaries/index.html

Another aspect to think about is: How important is it to your husband to maintain relations with his sibs? Is fighting about "who gets the RV" really worth the animous that will inevitably come from it? My very first Will Contest case involved a situation very similar to this. The daughter won the property but lost her sibs. Only she can know if it was worth the fight.

My best to you & your husband and the struggles that you are going through.

If questions remain, please ask.

Sincerely,

WA-Probate.com
 

pfwest

Member
WA-Probate.com said:
State? WA

OK. MIL and FIL bought the RV in 1987, with their money no credit or anything. In 1992 when FIL became ill it was just sitting outside the carport and was used as an extra bedroom when too many people visited at once.In 1997 my husband moved in with his parents as his father was realy ill an looked after his dad and mom. I came in my husband life in 2000 just after FIL passed away.In 2000 FIL passed away and MIL kept the RV. In 2003 my husband bought new belts etc to make sure that the RV was kept up so that we could travel. Mom said then that we were the only ones that would enjoy the RV so she put my husband on the title, we maintained it so we could take trips with it. Yes MIL left a will, stating that everything need to be divided by the 5 boys, that will was made up in early to mid eighty's even before FIL passed away. We dont know if it is joint or common as we cannot get into the house and thats where the title is.

*****​

Dear pfwest,

I will assume all the players reside & all the transactions occurred in Washington.

1987: H & W bought RV. Washington law presumes a purchase made by a married couple is their community property, & I'll assume that here. It is unstated, but I will assume that they took title as Joint Tenants. If no form of holding title was expressed, it was their community property.

2000: When H died:
The RV would have passed to W if title in Joint Tenancy.
The RV would have passed to W if H died intestate (ie, without a Will).
H's 1/2 community interest in the RV would have passed to whomever H specified in his Will if he died testate (ie, with a Will).
I will assume H's interest in the RV passed to W upon his death, altho this is not certain.

2003: W retitles RV in her name + your husband's name, probably as Joints Tenants, altho this is not stated. This is a very common transaction between an older widowed parent & an adult child --- the problem is that it is unclear what parent intended. Usually, what is intended is that this tranaction be what is known as a "Will substitute," that the parent is not intending to make a present gift of the property but only that it pass to the adult child at the parent's eventual death. Unfortunately & ambiguously, the law provides that without further information, when property is put into joint tenancy form, such as probably happened here, a present gift is made --- here, a gift of half of the property, to take effect now, now later, at the parent's later death. As you can imagine, this has resulted in numerous lawsuits, attempting to come to terms with what the parent intended. Furthermore, it is possible altho unlikely that parent may have intended only that the RV pass to your husband to avoid having to probate it --- on the understanding that your husband was to share it with the parent's other heirs, ie, your husband's siblings. What a mess & the making of a lawsuit! Putting property into Joint Tenancy form is cheap & easy, but it can really come back & bite you at death, just as you are now discovering. For further information about Joint Tenancies, see: B. Joint Tenancies, on:

http://www.wa-probate.com/Avoid-Probate/index.html

From what you say, it appears that W wanted your husband to have the RV at her death. Arguments for:

1. He put money into keeping it up.
2. He put time into keeping it up.
3. He was the only sib who expressed interested in it.
4. She said she wanted him to have it at her death.
Query: Do the other sibs acknowledge any of this? Were they present when she said "I want your husband to get it at my death?"

And so she put his name on the title, probably in Joint Tenancy form. You can see, however, that it is unclear what she actually intended, and your husband's sibs are now raising this issue, attempting to have the RV characterized as a probate asset, so it will fall into her estate & be divided among all the sibs, as her beneficiaries under her Will.

Assuming that the RV was put into Joint Tenancy form, the presumption will be that the Joint Tenancy form should be upheld, resulting in the RV passing to your husband as the surviving joint tenant. The sibs will have the burden of proof to show that this was not what she intended --- for example, that she really didn't realize what she was doing when she re-registered the RV; or that your husband prepared all the paperwork for the re-registration, and so it should be ignored due to your husband's undue influence over his frail & doddering mother; or that she put it in Joint Tenancy form "for convenience only," in order to avoid its probate; etc.

Your husband's sibs have an arguable case, and in situations like this, what often results is a negotiated settlement.

One alternative is to let the PR probate the RV and then for your husband to request a copy of the Inventory after 3 months following the PR's appointment. The RV should be listed there, and listed as a probate asset, ie, its joint tenancy form being ignored. Your husband could then file an objection with the Court, effectively asking the Court to determine the validity of the RV's being characterized as a probate asset, instead of upholding is Joint Tenancy form of title. For further information on this, see: E. Bond & Inventory & Appraisement Issues on:

http://www.wa-probate.com/Heirs-Beneficiaries/index.html

Another aspect to think about is: How important is it to your husband to maintain relations with his sibs? Is fighting about "who gets the RV" really worth the animous that will inevitably come from it? My very first Will Contest case involved a situation very similar to this. The daughter won the property but lost her sibs. Only she can know if it was worth the fight.

My best to you & your husband and the struggles that you are going through.

If questions remain, please ask.

Sincerely,

WA-Probate.com
Hi again,
No it is not that important that the RV will come to us. But there is much more to it than I am telling you. Mom died 3 weeks ago and the youngest brother refuse to have mom buried, so he served some kind of papers to the funeral home and if they release the body he will sue them. We dont know what he is up to. Then another brother did lied to us. He told us that moms purse was missing with all the credit cards etc. We assumed it was the youngest brother as he left moms house without telling us were he was going or how to reach him. We are told not to enter the house anymore after mom passed away untill inventory is made up. We agreed on that one, the grandson still lives in the house and so can his father another brother of my husband come to the house and take whatever he wants, now they want us to pay for moms car insurance so that the grandson can drive the car, we will not do that and now the brother is mad. You see it is already messy, we dont know who the lawyer is nor do we know anything what is said in the will only the 2 oldest knowing it. If we asked a question the only answer we getting is we are handling it. So thats realy the reason why my husband wants to know if he can claim that RV. My husband is tired of all this and when they asked him how he wanted the money, he told his brother that he didnt know that yet the only thing my hubby wants is put mom to rest peacefully.
 

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