Software for Will's & Trust

[rjordan392]

What is the name of your state? Pa.

It appears that two attorneys that I spoke with, will charge $1000.00 and up for preparing a new will and trust. So it appears I will do it myself using software.
My question is: Can I revoke my agreement of trust in the same clause by adding it to my will, such as: "I , Name ....of.....city and state declare this to be my will and hereby revoke all prior wills, codicils and the Name..... revocable agreement of trust".

Is this sufficient or do I need some instrument to declare the trust revoked? Is there a special legal form for this?
I also am open to just modifying both will and trust but at this point, I don't know if the software has instructions for performing this.

I just can't see going through the big expense of attorneys when I could possibly want to change my will and trust in the next 5, 10, or 20 years at more expense.
All I have is my home, a vehicle, some stock, savings and checking accounts and paid up life insurance policy, all estimated to be worth about $155,000 to $175,000.

 

[tranquility]

What does the software tell you?

I'd pay the money. You might find the attorney will give you advice which will better help you meet your goals.

 

[seniorjudge]

What is the name of your state? Pa.

It appears that two attorneys that I spoke with, will charge $1000.00 and up for preparing a new will and trust. So it appears I will do it myself using software.
My question is: Can I revoke my agreement of trust in the same clause by adding it to my will, such as: "I , Name ....of.....city and state declare this to be my will and hereby revoke all prior wills, codicils and the Name..... revocable agreement of trust".

Is this sufficient or do I need some instrument to declare the trust revoked? Is there a special legal form for this?
I also am open to just modifying both will and trust but at this point, I don't know if the software has instructions for performing this.

I just can't see going through the big expense of attorneys when I could possibly want to change my will and trust in the next 5, 10, or 20 years at more expense.
All I have is my home, a vehicle, some stock, savings and checking accounts and paid up life insurance policy, all estimated to be worth about $155,000 to $175,000.

double post

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=359172

 

[rjordan392]

Seniorjudge,
Not exactly a double post as my question in this post was replied to but my question was not answered. The other post I made was replied to but not answered either and perhaps I was not clear enough and decided to post a simular question.

 

[rjordan392]

What does the software tell you?

I'd pay the money. You might find the attorney will give you advice which will better help you meet your goals.

It gives all the forms one needs to make a will and trust, including power of attorney, living will, etc.
It starts off by asking for your imput and assigns this imput to the various pages of the will and trust. It give explanations for each field and options so that your imput is placed exactly where you want it.

 

[tranquility]

Excellent. Where did it put the part about revoking prior trusts?

 

[rjordan392]

Ok, I tried the software but here's the deal:
In order to revoke or file an amendment to either a will or a trust, one must have used the software to prepare and create the original will or trust. Then the software uses prior information on these documents to allow one to bring up the amendment or revoke forms.
It will not work any other way. But one can get around this by printing out an example and then just typing up a copy of the form, leaving out information not needed.

So it has a lot of current information on the legal aspects and a user manual. I may use it as a guide to still do my own trust. I have already created my will using the same language as the original without using the software. I will contact the last attorney to see what he requires to do the trust only. If he is reasonable, I'll let him do it.

I looked over the amendment and revoking procedures and decided It would be best if I revoked both and start over fresh because there are just too many beneficiarys that are being deleted and two sections of the trust need to be modified and the original schedule of assets have changed also and need to be corrected.

 

[tranquility]

It's almost like the software does not have the ability to integrate many facts. Right? That's what lawyers do. They take the myriad different facts and try to come up with a solution which will fit all the facts and achieve the goal the client wants. In a situation like yours, it is well worth the cost of that expertise applying machine.

As to the answer to your original question, it depends. I know you don't like that answer, but it is true. It depends on the facts of the situation to determine how to change things. Rather than doing things on the cheap, I advise you to get the help of a professional. I know it's more expensive, but it's worth it in this situation. If you don't go that route, don't ask questions you believe are on point. Study and learn and spend the many hours it takes to understand what you are doing in a legal sense. Then ask targeted questions if you need something to get you over a hump of understanding. You aren't there yet and you're not going to find it on the cheap in an out-of-the-box trust/will program.

 

[rjordan392]

I will be sending an email to an attorney to see what kind of room we both have in negotiating the cost of amending the trust vs revoking it. He is going to have to lower his charge to $600.00 or less for doing the trust. I consider that good money for having words printed on paper. I am on pension and my guessimate is I am making $30.00 more then I was making 10 years ago; so I have to be careful about my finances.

If he does not want to budge, then I still feel confident I can do it myself and do the legwork and save myself about $800.00.
I been a do it yourselfer for over 35 years.

It's just not me thats concern about the high cost of getting things done; even the working people are being squeezed because their salaries are not keeping up with the high demands of professionals and contractors and some of their jobs are going overseas.

So its people like me and many others that have decided to take a stand against those who will not negotiate. I will see what the attorney says, then make my decision.

 

[tranquility]

Having seen many trusts out-of-a-box results after the grantor dies, I wish you luck. That you dismiss the trust as simply "words on paper" shows a profound misunderstanding. Words on paper often have more meaning than anything else in our lives. Putting down the right words on paper can create, solve, simplify or make more complex any situation I know of.

 

[rjordan392]

<Putting down the right words on paper can create, solve, simplify or make more complex any situation I know of.>

That's true, but my decisions are not based on what effects just me but everyone else. When I see court decisions being overruled because some judge made mistakes or the attorney was incompetent or our Supreme Court reversing earlier decisions; it makes me wonder who's side are the courts on. It's no secret that our legal system bends to political beliefs then to what's right.

If you are an attorney, you might recall a famous case here in Philadelphia, Pa when a well to do businessman long ago ( I think in the late 1800's) created a will leaving enough money to start a school for "poor white children" or "parentless poor white children". The man's name was "Girard", I think his first name was Steven or Stephen. Well his will was declared invalid after all these years and now there are black children attending this school. So this means anyone can have his will overthrown. What caused this was not the common folk but all the legal types that make up our court system and lawyers that become congressman or state senators and representatives that started the war of words.

Here's a scenario for you:
Suppose you had two daughters and one of them decided she was going to marry a black man. Now you are left with two choices. Either accept the marraige or shun this daughter and cut her out of your will. After all, are not wills made up to reward those who please you. Your will most likely will be contested and I believe it will be declared invalid only because of todays political climate. It would be discriminatory to cut your daughter from the will. So you would have to come up with a lot more reasons other then discrimination to have a chance that your will would not be overturned.

What does all this mean? It means government is telling us that our "Minds" are not ours to control and they will decide in the end whether or not your wishes will be accepted. So when I look at your above quote, again I say, it was not the common folk that started the war of words.

 

[tranquility]

Like most people not trained in the law, you look at the result and not the process to determine the result. The reason why trusts are so complex is just for the reasons you fear. At one point, someone challenged the trust and won. The court's reasoning process was reviewed by experts (aka attorneys) and another clause was added to deal with that issue. Yes, people often claim things and the courts sometimes hold the claim valid and the grantor's wishes are not followed. It happens far more with out-of-the-box trusts than with competentently prepared trusts from experts.

As to your scenario, you are simply incorrect. A person can exclude another from his will for any reason--including ones which society objects to. There can be questions regarding disinheriting spouses or children, but those issues relate to relationship and not reason. Even then, competently prepared instruments can make the testator's/grantor's wishes happen. (Within the limits of the law.)

 

[HappyHusband]

It would be discriminatory to cut your daughter from the will. So you would have to come up with a lot more reasons other then discrimination to have a chance that your will would not be overturned.

You don't need any reason to NOT include someone in your will.

What does all this mean? It means government is telling us that our "Minds" are not ours to control and they will decide in the end whether or not your wishes will be accepted. So when I look at your above quote, again I say, it was not the common folk that started the war of words.

If your will is sufficiently vague or in the improper form or use the incorrect verbage, then the court will have to decide what your wishes really were (which may be completely opposite of what you thought you were wishing.)

 

[rjordan392]

<A person can exclude another from his will for any reason--including ones which society objects to. There can be questions regarding disinheriting spouses or children, but those issues relate to relationship and not reason.>

So I take it that Mr. Girard's will was overturned because he designated "poor white children" instead of "all poor children" as a Reason. So how do you reconcile your quote "For Any Reason".
So it does look to me that if society does not like your Reason, the courts can overturn your will. The school in question is called "Girard College" and the administrators following his will would not let black children attend.

And what about a statute of limitations, does not one exist for wills if someone decides to challange? His will must have been 70 or more years old when it was overturned, I believe in the 1960's.

 

[HappyHusband]

So it does look to me that if society does not like your Reason, the courts can overturn your will.

One way around that is to NOT state a reason for NOT including someone in your will.

Of course, some states bar you from cutting certain people out of your will, if the amount willed is less than they are entitled to per statute.