Stranger Beneficiary

[Frangipani]

My father recently passed away and left no will... But he did leave a completed worksheet for his legal service provider (filled out sometime in the last year); which he had not submitted. In it, he stated that he intended to leave everything, including a $100K insurance policy to my brother and I.

A few weeks ago, I contacted his pension program (where I assume he has that $100K insurance policy) to inform them of his death; and yesterday, I was contacted by an agent(?) at that program, asking if I knew of a woman we'll call Jane Doe. Apparently this woman was named the primary beneficiary of this insurance policy in 2002.

This is a woman I do not know, have never heard of, that my father's siblings have never heard of, and whom they (the pension program) are unable to locate.

Given that our father did not have a will, but appears to have intended to will everything to my brother and I in a worksheet (with no mention of Jane Doe anywhere), do we have a leg to stand on should Jane Doe come forward?

Full disclosure: I am a little angry that a stranger is beneficiary to this policy. Particularly when this woman was nowhere to be seen when my father was dying; while my brother and I signed legal papers, called friends and relatives (none of whom where her), cleaned out his apartment, made arrangements for his funeral, etc... And I DO NOT want this woman (whoever she is) to have one red cent.

(And if it matters, I was given POA when my father was hospitalized, and have since been appointed Personal Representative of his estate.)

 

[justalayman]

Given that our father did not have a will, but appears to have intended to will everything to my brother and I in a worksheet (with no mention of Jane Doe anywhere), do we have a leg to stand on should Jane Doe come forward?

Nope. An insurance policy is not subject to probate. It belongs to the beneficiary.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Ditto, unless you can prove the beneficiary was appointed pursuant to a fraudulent act, the money is held for them.

 

[Frangipani]

After discussion with my probate attorney and consulting with the retirement program representative, I can confirm you are right!

I can also confirm that after you realize that your father left the bulk of his estate to the woman HE CHEATED ON YOUR MOTHER WITH, rather than his four grandchildren, you can call said woman up and notify her of her windfall. And then you can notify your brother that your father lied on his deathbed about how much he was sorry and how much he loved you all... I guess people don't really ever change.

And then you can go and resign as executor, and let his beloved beneficiary pay his bills and plan his memorial service.

I hope she and my father's money are very happy together.

 

[justalayman]

sorry that this realization happened only after his death. I'm betting it kind of sucks.

but with that said;

is this decision because you did not get any money or that he lied about his paramour? There are often things in a relationship you will never know and actually, have no right to know and should not know. How do you know your fathers activities were not due to some failing in the relationship with your mother, or even activities of your mother and your father never said anything because he did not want be disparaging of your mother to her children?

Seriously, right now you sound like the money was the only reason you were doing anything. Your posts suggest there was some fair relationship with your father up until his death. You write that off as nothing but deceit.

And then you can go and resign as executor, and let his beloved beneficiary pay his bills and plan his memorial service.

his beneficiary is not obligated to pay anything unless she so obligates herself. Your father's estate is liable for his bills and expenses, including his funeral arrangements.

Might I suggest you reconsider your actions. You cannot go back and change things in the past. If you are wrong, you are going to feel like an ass when you find out the truth. If you are right, you can claim to be the bigger man and took care of business in light of the newly realized information.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

That is why the saying goes, never count on an inheritance. When my father died, he wanted his life insurance to go to his girlfriend. I spent hours coordinating proof of her ID and transferring the check to her in Mexico. I guess my level of expectation was that what mattered was what my father wanted, not what I wanted.

 

[Frangipani]

This isn’t new information; this is 35 year old information.

My father was not a good guy. He was angry and violent… But not a liar, since he never lied about her. My brother and I were aware of their relationship when we were about 8 or 9, since he would come home and torture my mother with stories of what they had been doing… But I’m sure my mother (now divorced from my father for over 20 years) was asking for it, as you have insinuated.

This woman has lived over 3000 miles away, with her husband, for the last 3 decades; and her current relationship with my father consisted of Christmas letters and occasional phone calls.

I don’t care if that policy is for $100, this is not about money. My father choosing her as beneficiary says something about who he is, and what his priorities are… His choice proves to me that she is more important to him than the four grandchildren that love him dearly. (Grandchildren I get to explain this to, since I have been completely transparent about everything going on with the estate.)

So we’re clear, my father’s Hoarders-like existence and shopping addiction had me 100% convinced that there was never anything to inherit… Only lots and lots of collection agencies to pay. I’m not doing the PRO-BONO work of settling his estate because I have my eye on a new fur coat.

I didn’t fly back home in the middle of the night for the money; I did it because his caretaker called and told me he was in the ICU, and that he was crying for me. I sat at his bedside for 9 days while he died because he is my father; and while he may not have been a very good father, I was a very good daughter. How dare you imply that I am anything less.

I have a right to be angry with him, and your insinuation that I’m only angry because I can’t get my paws on his money is insulting.

I believed his deathbed apologies, and I forgave him for all the black eyes and fat lips he gave me because I thought he meant it. But his actions prove that he’s no different than he was when we were growing up. This IS deceit.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

We are not here to change your view of dad or the world. Good Luck in your future.

 

[Frangipani]

We are not here to change your view of dad or the world. Good Luck in your future.

I know. And I thank you for your reply... And for your failure to accuse me of gold-digging.

 

[justalayman]

My father was not a good guy. He was angry and violent… But not a liar, since he never lied about her. My brother and I were aware of their relationship when we were about 8 or 9, since he would come home and torture my mother with stories of what they had been doing… But I’m sure my mother (now divorced from my father for over 20 years) was asking for it, as you have insinuated.

I did nothing of the sort. I suggested a possibility that, due to my lack of knowledge of your situation, was just as reasonable as it wasn't.

I didn’t fly back home in the middle of the night for the money; I did it because his caretaker called and told me he was in the ICU, and that he was crying for me. I sat at his bedside for 9 days while he died because he is my father; and while he may not have been a very good father, I was a very good daughter. How dare you imply that I am anything less.

You are the one yelling about the money and how terrible it is that "she" gets it and not you. Sorry but the more you object, the more it appears that yes, it is about the money.

I believed his deathbed apologies, and I forgave him for all the black eyes and fat lips he gave me because I thought he meant it. But his actions prove that he’s no different than he was when we were growing up. This IS deceit.

of course this is all information I had to work with...NOT


I merely gave a suggestion, based on only what you had presented to that point, that maybe it is better to err on the side that allows you peace of mind in your life, regardless of the truth rather than self loathing that could have resulted in discovering you were wrong and having treated the guy like crap in death.


sorry for suggesting you do something to show how big of a person you are. Sorry for suggesting you do things that allow you to have inner peace because you did everything you could to benefit another human being, even if there was reason to consider an alternate action.

Sorry you have become so jaded in your life that vitriol is the norm rather than the exception.

Have a nice life. I suggest some counseling to help you get over all the pain your father has caused you. He is dead and gone now and can no longer hurt you but I suspect he will be hurting you for the rest of your life because of the person you have become allows it.

 

[Frangipani]

How do you know your fathers activities were not due to some failing in the relationship with your mother.

Yeah. You never said that at all!

So.. Apparently, responding to accusations of money grubbing means that you MUST BE! Then I guess, saying that SURE! I'm totally in it for the negative $7000 I've paid out of my pocket to cover my father's bills means that I'm in it for the negative $7000!

Woo!

 

[justalayman]

Yeah. You never said that at all!

So.. Apparently, responding to accusations of money grubbing means that you MUST BE! Then I guess, saying that SURE! I'm totally in it for the negative $7000 I've paid out of my pocket to cover my father's bills means that I'm in it for the negative $7000!

Woo!

sure I said that. Read the entire thread and show me where you stated it was not due to that. I do not know you nor your parents so I could not say if it was factual or not, and I didn't. I suggested a possible scenario for you to review and consider. If it was not applicable and you knew it, then discard it. If you did not know it was not applicable, then keep it in consideration but either way, it is not something I said was factual

as to you paying $7k for his debts?


WHY? You had no obligation to pay his debts. If his estate was BK, then the creditors get nothing. If there is money in the estate, then they get paid before anybody else does. I love my dad dearly but I sure as Hell have no intention of paying any remaining debts when he dies.

You have some serious anger issues you need to deal with. A really good counselor might do wonders for you. Feel free to make me the target of your anger though as being a faceless internet poster, in the end, it causes me no harm. If it makes you feel better, take your best shot...

 

[justalayman]

This isn’t new information; this is 35 year old information.

My father was not a good guy. He was angry and violent… But not a liar, since he never lied about her. My brother and I were aware of their relationship when we were about 8 or 9, since he would come home and torture my mother with stories of what they had been doing… But I’m sure my mother (now divorced from my father for over 20 years) was asking for it, as you have insinuated.

This woman has lived over 3000 miles away, with her husband, for the last 3 decades; and her current relationship with my father consisted of Christmas letters and occasional phone calls.

.

t
things that make you go hhmmmm.

few weeks ago, I contacted his pension program (where I assume he has that $100K insurance policy) to inform them of his death; and yesterday, I was contacted by an agent(?) at that program, asking if I knew of a woman we'll call Jane Doe. Apparently this woman was named the primary beneficiary of this insurance policy in 2002.

This is a woman I do not know, have never heard of, that my father's siblings have never heard of, and whom they (the pension program) are unable to locate.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

 

[Frangipani]

things that make you go hhmmmm.

Yes, you’re right. It took me a conversation with my uncle for me to piece together that this was the same “Kathy” that I remember from when I was a kid. I’m sure, being a superior human being, you remember everything from when you were a child.

as to you paying $7k for his debts?
WHY? You had no obligation to pay his debts. If his estate was BK, then the creditors get nothing. If there is money in the estate, then they get paid before anybody else does. I love my dad dearly but I sure as Hell have no intention of paying any remaining debts when he dies.

I misspoke… I probably shouldn’t reply when I feel heated.

$4K of that went to paying for my brother to return from the Middle East to be at my father’s bedside. Being a member of the military, he doesn’t have the funds to pay for impromptu trips halfway across the planet, so I paid for it.

As for the rest – There’s only so much money in the existing bank account to pay for the two storage units I just discovered, and for the final caretaker’s paycheck and cleaning fees for his Hoarders apartment. Just because my father died doesn’t mean other people should have to suffer.

And I’ll admit that maybe, after probate is settled, I’ll probably be able to be reimbursed for this. So, I guess, this will put me back in the money-grubbing whore category again to some people. (You?)

I’m just trying to do the right thing. And it hurts when someone accuses me of having alternate intentions. I’m sorry to have jumped at you – while it’s no excuse, I’m highly emotional right now because what my father did breaks my heart… I don’t know what to tell my son.

 

[commentator]

And maybe your father was just like so many people, and put "Kathy" as his beneficiary on this policy back when they were hot and heavy, and then later when they were no longer close, he completely forgot to change the thing!

This situation is SO incredibly common, I know the Human Resources staff for my agency and for the state government I worked for were full of stories about people who had set up beneficiaries from relationships they were in long years ago, and who failed to change the beneficiaries when both parties moved on, and the long standing new wife had to watch the rotten ex receive a nice surprise in the form of the deceased's state death benefits and retirement pension, when they knew, as did everyone concerned, that it was not what the person wanted to happen.

They finally, after MANY appeals, got the statements to list, in large letters, who the beneficiary was each time they sent out a statement. When you called to announce a change in your status, the first thing they said to you was "Let us send you a beneficiary change form! Please send it back to us immediately!"

There was a glitch in my change forms, and I was astonished to learn that had I dropped dead before the error was corrected, my long ago ex-husband would have been a very surprised and happy man!

But seriously, this does not cancel out your relationship to your father. You only get one, whether you drew a good one or not, and you only get one chance to come to his bedside, give him forgiveness before he goes, and help him pass with dignity, even if he wasn't what you thought he was. I don't see how his leaving this money in this policy invalidates his deathbed apologies to you and your brother at all. As I said, we're not even sure he remembered that this policy existed. He obviously didn't get around to making that will he intended to make.