Trust Public Record?

[YESNOMAYBE]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TEXAS

My father-in-law (FIL) has placed all their assets into a trust, signed by my MIL w/FIL as the trustee (my wife is next-in-line to be trustee). I think the effect is that my MIL has given up her community property rights. He was recently diagnosed w/early stage dementia and is a bit of a control freak – now easily angered and denying MIL some niceties of living (she is in assisted living facility).

My wife would like to see a copy of the trust. FIL doesn’t want her to have one. The law firm that prepared it wants to charge her $180 to make a copy plus legal fees to review it to determine whether there have been any law changes that affect the terms/conditions of the trust. What a racket.

Are there “open source” ways to get a copy of trusts in Texas? Is this appropriate behavior by a law firm?

He is also talking about changing the terms/conditions of the trust. Can he do this without signature of MIL?

Thanks!

YNM

[curb1]

This is the problem, you said, "FIL doesn't want her to have one." That is the key to this situation. I would work that angle without pushing it too far. Does wife have any siblings? Is there any indication who the beneficiaries are?

Law firm seems out of line. I'm surprised that they indicated that your wife could see the trust. That decision would be up to FIL and MIL.

You said, "He is also talking about changing the terms/conditions of the trust. Can he do this without signature of MIL"?

You need to pin down/document his medical condition. This could have great importance at a later date.

[YESNOMAYBE]

I think the law firm is willing to provide my wife a copy (for a fee) since she is listed as the trustee if FIL cannot serve. She's told them of his diagnosis and hence they're a bit more open minded to offerring her insight into the trust.

She does have a sister (the only other child of FIL/MIL) who is not listed as a trustee but I'm presuming both are listed as recipients under the trust. Our interest at this point is to ensure there are enough assets left to permit good healthcare for both FIL & MIL.

His doctor has told us that when he reaches the point that he can no longer make approproiate decisions, then he will take the proper legal actions. Unfortunately FIL has now begun skipping (forgetting?) medical appointments. No family members live close enough to ensure he gets to the doctor and wife (in assisted living facility) no longer drives. He's taken the house and safe deposit keys from her so she no longer has access to the trust either.

So, can he change the trust in a community property state without her signature?

YNM

[curb1]

How is the trust named? Is it in both of their names? Are they both trustors? Is it a revocable trust?

You said, "Our interest at this point is to ensure there are enough assets left to permit good healthcare for both FIL & MIL." That should not be a problem. They should have full access to the assets within the trust while they are alive. They can sell assets as needed. They can spend the money in the trust.

You do need to have a better conversation with the doctor. You will need his support in things go in a detrimental direction.

[YESNOMAYBE]

It's titled the xxxx (family name) trust. I believe FIL and MIL are called "founders" but he is the trustee (if he cannot serve, my wife, and then I, become trustee). I think it's a revokable trust.

These are all great questions that I need to answer, and to do that I'll need to get a copy of the trust. I think he was given the original and the law firm kept a copy. And, I guess that means they're not publicly recorded or filed.

I'm not so concerned about access to the assets as I am that the assets are properly managed. For example, it appears he has over 80% in pretty speculative stocks right now and we're interested in knowing whether MIL can exert any influence over a portion of those $$$ to ensure she keeps enough to fund her assisted living arrangement should there be another major market correction. He's just not exercising good financial judgement given their ages, situation, and his diagnosis, and my wife wants to know what can be done to protect some of the funds for her mom. Since all assets are in the trust, and he's the trustee, it appears MIL has no access at all.

Thanks for your assistance curb1!

YNM

[swrdmbo]

Revocable family trusts are usually recorded.Try the county courthouse where they live, and go to the recorders office.These things are usually public records.Good luck.

[Dandy Don]

What you actually need to do is to consult with a family law attorney to find out if your wife or anyone else needs to apply for conservatorship for the father-in-law or for the mother if either is affected by diminished mental capacity, and whether conservator would then be granted complete control of any and all assets.

In the process someone needs to pay to have his mental competency evaluated because as has been mentioned previously this factor will come into play after he dies if any of the beneficiaries want to contest the trust, although that seems unlikely at this point.

You would be very lucky if the law firm chose to give your wife a copy of the trust even for a fee--just because she is a potential/secondary trustee doesn't necessarily mean she should be granted a copy of it by law. And even after you get your copy he could make changes and then where would you be? It is his business to manage his affairs the way he wants and if you have concerns about his wife's assets, the wife OR you need to be discussing this directly with him.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA (tiekh@yahoo.com)

[TrustUser]

trusts ARE NOT typically recorded. most people want their privacy.

why doesnt fil want her daughter to see the trust document ? it seems as if daughter is trying to help her mom.

very often the beneficiary has some say-so, if not a lot of say-so. just because fil is the trustee does not necessarily mean that mil is sol. she may very well have a lot of say in what goes on.

remember - the trustee is a manager of the trust. the beneficiary is the owner of the trust.

typically, the fil could not make changes without the signature of the mil.

[YESNOMAYBE]

Sincerely appreciate the posts folks.

FIL is just very controlling. Doesn't want even MIL to know much about the finances. MIL has been dominated for many years and doesn't question anything (e.g. evidently signed away her community property rights by putting all assets into the trust w/him as trustee). They are now semi-estranged w/her in assisted living and him w/early stage Alzheimer's becoming a hermit at ranch. He's in denial but can't remember grandkids names now, etc.. Is refusing to go into town to see docs (either forgets apptmts or is afraid further diagnosis may result in him losing control), get's angry w/all who try to influence his actions, has threatened to cut off funding to MIL assisted living home to make her return to ranch and help out there, etc.. I'm about the only person he'll talk to. A messy situation w/us living far away.

Don't want this to get ugly but it's beginning to appear there may be few options to save her portion of the estate (which, technically, she doesn't have any more I guess) from the whims of the stock market.

Thanks again for all the wisdom being posted.

YNM