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Will Misleading

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RSM

Junior Member
Michigan: My mothers will say's that there is an attached list for items she wants to give a specific person. But there is no attached list.

My mother said there is no list. I asked the attorney and he said oh that's for household furniture etc. or things she may want to give away. I said ok but should it say there is an attached list if there is indeed no list. Won't that be confusing at the reading?
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
It won't be misleading and only slightly confusing while they hunt around looking for the missing attachment. Unless there is statement in the will as to how to disburse the remaining items not in the nonexistent attachment, the intestate succession rules will play.

There's no "reading" like you see in old movies.
 

TrustUser

Senior Member
the way i do my trust is - that the trustor may place a note with the trust document as to any personal property the trustor wants to give away. if no note is found, then it assumes that no note was made.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
the way i do my trust is - that the trustor may place a note with the trust document as to any personal property the trustor wants to give away. if no note is found, then it assumes that no note was made.
If the items do not belong to the trust, nothing you put in the trust document has any bearing on it. I assume you meant the pour over will.
 

TrustUser

Senior Member
hi ron,

i was talking about the trust.

typically a trust has language in it that says all personal property owned by me now and in the future is owned by my trust.

if the trustor wants to give particular personal items to anyone in particular, the testator simply writes it on a note, and places it with the trust document.

when the testator dies, if a note is found, and the item is found, then it is distributed accordingly - without the testator having to go through any legal action, or notarized action.

it is generally for items of mostly sentimental value. if the testator wanted to give his $50,000 collector car to someone, then that should be placed as part of the trust document.

i was just suggesting that perhaps language similar to that could be placed in the will being discussed.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
typically a trust has language in it that says all personal property owned by me now and in the future is owned by my trust.
The trust document can't usurp ownership of your personal items regardless of the wording. You have to do something else to grant ownership to the trust.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Well, see, there's the grant. I told you that the trust itself was not, in itself, sufficient. You mislead people, and then go backpedaling. I'd still have a will. You never know what you might pick up as personal property that doesn't fit the legal description in the broad grant or could be challenged by someone who might get it via an intestate succession outside the trust.
 

TrustUser

Senior Member
i am not back-pedaling. as i said, it is commonly done.

personal property items are SELDOM challenged by anyone.

i never said that you shouldnt have a pour-over will for your trust. i dont think it is necessary, but it doesnt hurt.

i separate my assets by "titled" and "non-titled". so as long as it is not titled, it fits in the broad category.

if it is titled, it is registered with the trust at the time of titling. or re-registered, if it is already owned.

i would like to see someone claim that an asset is neither titled, nor non-titled.
 

TrustUser

Senior Member
there is another reason why i like that language inside my trust document.

the trust document, assuming you have titled assets, is the only thing that can be proven to exist.

wills and deeds of gifts to trustees, and other separate documents can conveniently disappear, with no evidence of their disappearance.

not so with a trust that has titled assets. and if you dont have titled assets, it would hardly be worth having a trust.

not sure why you wanted to get pissy with me.
 

TrustUser

Senior Member
personally, i did all 3.

place the language in my trust, the assignment, and the pour-over will.

but i definitely want the language in the trust document itself.
 

TrustUser

Senior Member
hi ron,

a quote from the net

Assignment to Trust of your personal property: This document funds your trust with your personal belongings such as your household furnishings, artwork, jewelry, etc. It establishes your clear intention that you want to have your personal belongings distributed according to the terms of your trust at death.

5 Key Steps to Creating a Living Trust | www.ADVISOR.com

i want that clear intent in my personal trust itself. if i had to choose between a trust with the lingo in it, or a trust without the lingo and the assignment, i would go for the trust only.

the reason being - it takes no effort to have the assignment document disappear. i am pretty confident that someone would have a hard time laying claim to a piece of personal property with a trust document having that lingo.

and again, this is for property that does not have a large sum of value.

for people who have expensive jewelry, diamonds, etc. i would do a bill of sale on them. but i would also mention them separately in the trust document.

just as a reminder for all of us - only titled assets can be proven to belong to the trust, by nature of the asset itself. this is because it is registered, be it a real estate deed at the county, or a bank account at the bank.
 

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