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  1. #1
    millermakahahaw Guest

    Question wills valid in all states?

    What is the name of your state? hi. i made a will 10 yrs. ago in pennsylvania leaving everything to a friend and nothing to my son . is this will good in hawaii? it was done by an attorney in Pa.I was told as people move frequently all states will honor it. I still own property in Pa.
  2. #2
    I AM ALWAYS LIABLE is offline Senior Member
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    Re: wills valid in all states?

    Originally posted by millermakahahaw
    What is the name of your state? hi. i made a will 10 yrs. ago in pennsylvania leaving everything to a friend and nothing to my son . is this will good in hawaii? it was done by an attorney in Pa.I was told as people move frequently all states will honor it. I still own property in Pa.

    My response:

    Like marriages, Wills are also recognized by all States, no matter where the Will was made.

    IAAL
  3. #3
    HomeGuru is offline Senior Member
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    Where there's a will, there's a way.
  4. #4
    JETX is offline Senior Member
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    With all due respect, I have to disagree on this one.

    Just like state laws, not all states have the same requirements for wills and/or probate.

    Many states have different execution and attestation rules. A validly drawn and executed Will SHOULD be valid in most states, but it is wise to, at a minimum, have a qualified attorney in your new state of residence review your will ( and estate plan). Some states have different laws as to what constitutes a valid holographic (unattested and handwritten) wills.... and some (like Illinois) don't allow them at all.
  5. #5
    millermakahahaw Guest

    R copies of wills valid in other states

    My friend and I have copies of the wills we made in Pa.We lost the original. The attorney said he has no original and in Pa. copies R not valid. I contacted an attorney in Hi. who said copies R valid but did not know if a copy of a Pa. will would also be valid in Hi. We left everything to each other and nothing to our children from previous marriages.
  6. #6
    I AM ALWAYS LIABLE is offline Senior Member
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    My response:

    A will is valid in California if it is either (a) executed in compliance with California law; or (b) executed in compliance with the law prevailing at the time of execution at the place where it was executed; or (c) executed in compliance with the law of the place where, at the time of execution or at time of death, decedent was domiciled, had a place of abode, or was a national. [Ca Probate 6113; Estate of Guerrero (1986) 183 Cal.App.3d 723, 728, 228 Cal.Rptr. 408, 411 (validating will executed in Mexico in conformance with Mexican law, pursuant to former Ca Probate 26)

    Jetx, please refer me to ANY State that doesn't have a similar law to California. The reason why I say this is because each State recognizes the laws of all of its "sister States". If that wasn't the case, insofar as Wills were concerned, then people wouldn't have the freedom of travel - - because they wouldn't know when they were going to drop dead - - WHICH MEANS (and this is the important part) that as long as the Will is properly written pursuant to the laws of the State where it was written, then that Will is valid in ANY State.

    IAAL
  7. #7
    millermakahahaw Guest

    Copies of wills valid

    Thanx but R copies valid??? See 2nd part of last question. we lost or misplaced the originals thru the years
  8. #8
    I AM ALWAYS LIABLE is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Copies of wills valid

    Originally posted by millermakahahaw
    Thanx but R copies valid??? See 2nd part of last question. we lost or misplaced the originals thru the years

    My response:

    Now, THAT'S a State specific question. California, for example, has a "best evidence Rule" (now known as the "secondary evidence rule") requiring certain criteria to be met. Each State has it's own criterion.

    To be safe, make a new, original Will.

    IAAL
  9. #9
    I AM ALWAYS LIABLE is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
    [B]


    Jetx, please refer me to ANY State that doesn't have a similar law to California.

    ===========================


    My response:

    And, while Jetx is feverishly trying to locate any State law regarding the validity of out-of-State Wills, let's all take a "station break" for a word from our sponsor - - FreeAdvice.

    Hi folks, "FreeAdvice Freddy" here. Have you been late on your payments? Had your kid taken? Can't get the monthly money from that deadbeat? Lookin' for a way out of that criminal jam? Need a good Top 10 list?

    Well, you came to the right place!

    Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

    IAAL
  10. #10
    lwpat is offline Senior Member
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    For all the time you have spent posting you could have already completed a new will properly executed and witnessed in accordance with the laws in the State of Hawaii.

    Your will needs to take into account what would happen if you were both in a tragic accident.
  11. #11
    JETX is offline Senior Member
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    IAAL:
    You said, "Jetx, please refer me to ANY State that doesn't have a similar law to California."
    *** However, that is NOT what I said.
    I said, "Just like state laws, not all states have the same requirements for wills and/or probate." And that is a correct statement.

    And though you say, "while Jetx is feverishly trying to locate any State law regarding the validity of out-of-State Wills**************", I wasn't 'feverishly' looking... but had other more important things to do. However, never fear..... the following information shows that your statement of "Wills are also recognized by all States, no matter where the Will was made." is NOT correct.

    Before providing the information you lacked, it is important to clarify the situation..... I never said that a will from one state is not valid in other states. I only said that not all state laws are alike in recognizing wills and what constitutes a valid will.

    With that caveat...... the subject is HOLOGRAPHIC wills:

    ---------------------------------------------
    California:
    Attested, or witnessed wills are valid in California if they are signed before two disinterested witnesses who will not be getting any portion of your estate after your death. Witnesses must also be age 18 or older.

    Holographic Wills:
    If you want, you can make your own simple holographic (handwritten) will by writing out your wishes on a sheet of paper. Your holographic will cannot be typed, and you cannot have someone else write it out for you. It must be written in your own hand. Then, all you have to do is to sign and date it. Witnesses are not required, but they never hurt.
    [url]http://www.lentillem.com/trusts.html[/url]

    --------------------------------------------
    Hawaii:
    Except as provided in subsection (b) and in sections 560:2-503, 560:2-506, and 560:2-513, a will must be:
    1. In writing;
    2. Signed by the testator or in the testator's name by some other individual in the testator's conscious presence and by the testator's direction; and
    3. Signed by at least two individuals, each of whom signed within a reasonable time after the individual witnessed either the signing of the will as described in paragraph (2) or the testator's acknowledgment of that signature or acknowledgment of the will.
    (b) A will that does not comply with subsection (a) is valid as a holographic will, whether or not witnessed, if the signature and material portions of the document are in the testator's handwriting.
    (c) Intent that the document constitute the testator's will can be established by extrinsic evidence, including, for holographic wills, portions of the document that are not in the testator's handwriting. Hawaii Code Section 560:2-502.

    Who may witness. (a) An individual generally competent to be a witness may act as a witness to a will.
    (b) The signing of a will by an interested witness does not invalidate the will or any provision of it, including any gift to or appointment of the witness.
    Hawaii Code Section 560:2-505.

    Writings intended as wills, etc. Although a document or writing added upon a document was not executed in compliance with section 560:2-502, the document or writing is treated as if it had been executed in compliance with that section if the proponent of the document or writing establishes by clear and convincing evidence that the decedent intended the document or writing to constitute:
    1. The decedent's will;
    2. A partial or complete revocation of the will;
    3. An addition to or an alteration of the will; or
    4. A partial or complete revival of the decedent's formerly revoked will or of a formerly revoked portion of the will.
    Hawaii Code Section 560:2-503.
    [url]http://www.medlawplus.com/library/legal/states/hawaii.tpl?page=lwt[/url]

    --------------------------------------
    Pennsylvania:
    In Pennsylvania, a holographic will is a will that is handwritten and signed by the Testator.
    - To be valid in Pennsylvania a hollographic will must be testamentary in character. This means that the will must state specific bequests to others, and must contain the name of the testator.
    - A holographic will in Pennsylvania does not need to be witnessed.

    ----------------------------------------
    Also, the following website shows the differences in state requirements for holographic wills.
    [url]http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/CMme/fall_02/AGEC425/materials/uploads/Valid_will_requirements_50statesDC.pdf[/url]

    In summary, your statement that "Wills are also recognized by all States, no matter where the Will was made." is clearly NOT correct.
    Last edited by JETX; 07-28-2003 at 09:05 AM.
  12. #12
    I AM ALWAYS LIABLE is offline Senior Member
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    Originally posted by millermakahahaw
    What is the name of your state? hi. i made a will 10 yrs. ago in pennsylvania leaving everything to a friend and nothing to my son . is this will good in hawaii? it was done by an attorney in Pa.I was told as people move frequently all states will honor it. I still own property in Pa.

    My response to JetX

    I don't know where you got the idea that we're talking about "Holographic" Wills. Clearly, our writer is asking about his "formalized" Will; i.e., "it was done by an attorney in Pa." But, even in the instance of Holographic Wills, my arguments would be the same, hereinafter - -

    You said - -

    "A validly drawn and executed Will SHOULD be valid in most states, but it is wise to, at a minimum, have a qualified attorney in your new state of residence review your will ( and estate plan). Some states have different laws as to what constitutes a valid holographic (unattested and handwritten) wills.... and some (like Illinois) don't allow them at all."

    Our writer wasn't asking whether or not his Will was "valid", and again, not about a Holographic Will. Our writer was asking if his formalized Will would be recognized by a court in Hawaii should he die in that State.

    Granted, different States have the absolute right to make different requirements for a valid Will. No argument there. All I was saying - - and this is the important part - - that if a person's Will meets the requirements of the State "where it was made", then each OTHER State will recognize that Will as being proper, valid, and will probate that Will - - no matter what the particular requirements of law the probating State might be. The court would simply look to the laws of the originating State to determine "validity."

    If an otherwise valid foreign Will could be rejected because it didn't meet the requirements of the probating State, Estates across the country and their heirs would be in a condition of utter chaos.

    I have no qualms concerning the many States having their own Rules for the validity of a Will. All I'm saying is that wasn't the question; rather, it was whether the PA Will would be recognized in Hawaii, and your "links" did not prove me incorrect in that regard.

    The simple fact of this whole matter is that, regardless of a particular State's laws, a Will is valid if . . . "(c) executed in compliance with the law of the place where, at the time of execution or at time of death, decedent was domiciled, had a place of abode, or was a national."

    I can't figure out how you got off on this tangent concerning Holographic Wills, either.

    IAAL
    Last edited by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE; 07-28-2003 at 09:55 AM.
  13. #13
    JETX is offline Senior Member
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    "I can't figure out how you got off on this tangent concerning Holographic Wills, either."
    *** I got on that 'tangent' when you said that (ALL) "Wills are also recognized by all States, no matter where the Will was made."
    That simply is not a true statement. Now, if you had said "All states will recognize a will that is/was valid in the state it was drawn up", that I would have agreed with.

    You also said, "Our writer wasn't asking whether or not his Will was "valid", and again, not about a Holographic Will. Our writer was asking if his formalized Will would be recognized by a court in Hawaii should he die in that State."
    Again, that is NOT what was asked. Our writer said, "i made a will 10 yrs. ago in pennsylvania leaving everything to a friend and nothing to my son . is this will good in hawaii?"
    There is NOTHING in that statement as to it NOT being a holographic will. In fact, he says "I MADE", which indicates it MIGHT be a holographic. Further, he specifically asked as to the validity of the will!!!

    Please, lets get the facts correct....
  14. #14
    I AM ALWAYS LIABLE is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by JETX
    [B]"I can't figure out how you got off on this tangent concerning Holographic Wills, either."
    *** I got on that 'tangent' when you said that (ALL) "Wills are also recognized by all States, no matter where the Will was made."

    That simply is not a true statement. Now, if you had said "All states will recognize a will that is/was valid in the state it was drawn up", that I would have agreed with.


    MY RESPONSE: You're splitting hairs. Again, the Will was made by a PA attorney. The "presumption" had to be made that our writer's Will, made in PA, by a PA attorney, is a "valid" Will because he was asking about it's validity in Hawaii. This is especially so since our writer wasn't asking whether his PA will was valid in PA. Also a Holographic Will, and a Formalized Will, that meet the rules and laws of it's originating State is, in fact, valid in all States. When the information isn't asked, why would you presume that the PA Will was anything other than valid? Why would you question that? We could be here all day long asking questions of our writer that weren't asked, but certain facts must be taken at face value and/or presumed in order to move along. Did he use black or blue ink? Was it written on letter size or legal size paper? Was the paper blank or lined and numbered? Was the paper yellow or white? Was it sealed and blessed by a priest? Who CARES!



    You also said, "Our writer wasn't asking whether or not his Will was "valid", and again, not about a Holographic Will. Our writer was asking if his formalized Will would be recognized by a court in Hawaii should he die in that State."
    Again, that is NOT what was asked. Our writer said, "i made a will 10 yrs. ago in pennsylvania leaving everything to a friend and nothing to my son . is this will good in hawaii?"
    There is NOTHING in that statement as to it NOT being a holographic will. In fact, he says "I MADE", which indicates it MIGHT be a holographic. Further, he specifically asked as to the validity of the will!!!

    MY RESPONSE: Then you should have read the writer's initial post one sentence further. Why are you making excuses for your dead argument? You simply are not reading, or are refusing to read and acknowledge what our writer has said in order to give your argument a false basis. The writer has stated, and in fact says, "it was done by an attorney in Pa." What makes you think, with that statement, that our writer's Will is Holographic? When have you ever known an attorney to write a handwritten Will for a client? First, that wouldn't fly because a Holographic Will, by it's definition, must be written completely in the hand of the Testator - - not an attorney's hand. Second, attorney's don't handwrite anything for clients - - they type.

    The writer's statement about "I made" was probably the shortened version of, "I went to an attorney, gave him input, and gave him all the other necessary information to make me a Will."

    Also, the "I made" statement became surplusage and meaningless as soon as our writer said, "it was done by an attorney in Pa."


    Please, lets get the facts correct....

    MY RESPONSE: I don't know about you, but I did - - from the very beginning. And, you still haven't shown me any links for any States that would invalidate a valid Will drawn in another State.

    IAAL
    Last edited by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE; 07-28-2003 at 10:53 AM.
  15. #15
    JETX is offline Senior Member
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    "You're splitting hairs."
    *** Ahhhhh, and isn't that one of the most fun parts of being an attorney?? To be able to argue even the most infinitesimal detail!! Heck, if there weren't any 'splitting of hairs' and attorneys always agreed with each other, the legal profession would die from lack of work.

    "First, that wouldn't fly because a Holographic Will, by it's definition, must be written completely in the hand of the Testator - - not an attorney's hand"
    *** Strange.... Pennsylvania allows a holographic will to be typed.... and they don't care who typed it.... only that the testator sign it. Guess that is one of the differences between PA and CA wills.

    "And, you still haven't shown me any links for any States that would invalidate a valid Will drawn in another State."
    *** And you won't, since that is NOT what I said. I realize that MOST (all?) states will recognize a valid will from another state.... but again, that wasn't the issue.... or my statement.

    This is clearly an issue of assumptions and 'hair splitting' (by both of us). I am done with this one...

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