W/C Physical therapy during working hours?

[Jj Baker]

My name is Jj baker I work for Fountain Valley School District in California I hurt my back on the job on 12/6/11 I’ve seen the workmen’s comp doctor. Now I’m on light duty half day and the other part of the day I work at our district office filing papers. I’ve been told I half to go to Physical Therapy after my shift is over and I can’t go during my working hours is this true?

Thanks

 

[Willlyjo]

My name is Jj baker I work for Fountain Valley School District in California I hurt my back on the job on 12/6/11 I’ve seen the workmen’s comp doctor. Now I’m on light duty half day and the other part of the day I work at our district office filing papers. I’ve been told I half to go to Physical Therapy after my shift is over and I can’t go during my working hours is this true?

Thanks

It is reasonable to be expected to go to Physical Therapy after your shift is over. If it is impossible to schedule your therapy after or before work hours, then you have to be allowed to go during your working hours. If this results in an accumulation of lost wages, you should receive Partial Temporary Disability Benefits as described under California Workers Comp. benefits. Google it and it will explain further.

 

[canhelp]

I think you have misunderstood your employer.
they cannot physically prevent you from leaving the job especially for a medical appointment.
they probably mean that they will not pay your wages while you are gone for work comp treatment.
that is correct. the work comp benefits would be provided by the TPA or insurance carrier and not by the employer.
in california time off for medical treatment would be paid as disability.
for every day away you would be entitled to 1 day of Temporary Disability.
save up your hours off and after 8 request TD.
you can contact your union rep or refer to your employees manual for use of work comp time.
I suspect your employer also has clear rules on use of sick leave and vacation for such time off and may approve such use for work comp injuries as well.

 

[cyjeff]

I think you have misunderstood your employer.
they cannot physically prevent you from leaving the job especially for a medical appointment.
they probably mean that they will not pay your wages while you are gone for work comp treatment.
that is correct. the work comp benefits would be provided by the TPA or insurance carrier and not by the employer.
in california time off for medical treatment would be paid as disability.
for every day away you would be entitled to 1 day of Temporary Disability.
save up your hours off and after 8 request TD.
you can contact your union rep or refer to your employees manual for use of work comp time.
I suspect your employer also has clear rules on use of sick leave and vacation for such time off and may approve such use for work comp injuries as well.

As far as I know, this is completely incorrect. I know of no statute that requires a company, public or private, to allow a worker to leave in the middle of the day for a medical appointment.

Please list the statute to which you are referring so that I can become better educated. If the reason for this requirement lies in a CBA, we should make sure that the OP is a member of that CBA before making a blanket statement.

I will state that in most cases, an employer is not required to allow an employee to leave the workplace for a medical appointment. Medical appointments can be made around the workday.

 

[Willlyjo]

As far as I know, this is completely incorrect. I know of no statute that requires a company, public or private, to allow a worker to leave in the middle of the day for a medical appointment.

Please list the statute to which you are referring so that I can become better educated. If the reason for this requirement lies in a CBA, we should make sure that the OP is a member of that CBA before making a blanket statement.

I will state that in most cases, an employer is not required to allow an employee to leave the workplace for a medical appointment. Medical appointments can be made around the workday.

Obviously you don't know enough to say Canhelp is incorrect. The fact is when an injured worker cannot schedule their therapy before or after work-hours, they can attend therapy during work hours. Surely in the OP's case, her employer has accepted her claim which means if their Network of Doctors schedule appointments for therapy during work hours because there is no space otherwise, the employer wouldn't object.

If such workers comp. claim is denied and the injured worker gets fired for leaving work to go to treatment, there would be penalties under Section 132(a) of the California Labor Code. I don't think any employer would want to face a "Serious and Willful" action on top of a Workers Compensation claim by refusing or retaliating against an injured worker who was forced to go to therapy treatments during work hours.

Glad I could educate you, Cyjeff, on California Workers Compensation Law.

 

[cbg]

Here's the thing, Willy.

I'm a pretty good researcher, but I can't find a law that says that the employer is required to allow an employee to take time off work for medical appointments, and I can't find anything in CA Section 132(a) that says that either. There's a very big difference between an employer being prohibited from firing an employee for filing a claim, and an employer being required to allow an employee to take unlimited time off for doctor's appointments with no penalty.

So why don't you do something unprecedented and back up your claim. And don't bother with your usual retort of how we should look it up ourselves because I've already tried to do that and can't find it. Obviously I'm not going to be able to find a law that doesn't exist.

So unless you provide some proof of your claim, I'm going to operate on the theory that you are wrong.

 

[cyjeff]

Obviously you don't know enough to say Canhelp is incorrect. The fact is when an injured worker cannot schedule their therapy before or after work-hours, they can attend therapy during work hours. Surely in the OP's case, her employer has accepted her claim which means if their Network of Doctors schedule appointments for therapy during work hours because there is no space otherwise, the employer wouldn't object.

If such workers comp. claim is denied and the injured worker gets fired for leaving work to go to treatment, there would be penalties under Section 132(a) of the California Labor Code. I don't think any employer would want to face a "Serious and Willful" action on top of a Workers Compensation claim by refusing or retaliating against an injured worker who was forced to go to therapy treatments during work hours.

Glad I could educate you, Cyjeff, on California Workers Compensation Law.

Yup, I looked in 132(a) as well...couldn't find a thing about how an employee can take time off in the middle of any day they wanted for treatment.

continue to educate me... post the actual language you think justifies your statement.

and yes, Willy... every single time you post a "fact", you will have to back it up because you NEVER do.

Now, you will tell us to do our own research. I did. It isn't there. Of course, I am not stating a fact that cannot be backed up, either.

Show me, oh king of the single legal victory...

 

[LdiJ]

Yup, I looked in 132(a) as well...couldn't find a thing about how an employee can take time off in the middle of any day they wanted for treatment.

continue to educate me... post the actual language you think justifies your statement.

and yes, Willy... every single time you post a "fact", you will have to back it up because you NEVER do.

Now, you will tell us to do our own research. I did. It isn't there. Of course, I am not stating a fact that cannot be backed up, either.

Show me, oh king of the single legal victory...

If OP works for a school district its probable that OP is a Union Member. Therefore whatever the Union contract states is what would be allowed, would it not? Therefore, he really should be talking to his Union Rep.

I would also think that the contract between the school system and the workman's comp insurance provider would factor in to some extent as well.

 

[Willlyjo]

Here's the thing, Willy.

I'm a pretty good researcher, but I can't find a law that says that the employer is required to allow an employee to take time off work for medical appointments, and I can't find anything in CA Section 132(a) that says that either. There's a very big difference between an employer being prohibited from firing an employee for filing a claim, and an employer being required to allow an employee to take unlimited time off for doctor's appointments with no penalty.

So why don't you do something unprecedented and back up your claim. And don't bother with your usual retort of how we should look it up ourselves because I've already tried to do that and can't find it. Obviously I'm not going to be able to find a law that doesn't exist.

So unless you provide some proof of your claim, I'm going to operate on the theory that you are wrong.

You can't find the law because there isn't a law that says the employer has to allow an injured worker to take time off for therapy during working hours!

Let me ask a question that maybe you have the common sense to answer. Do you really believe an employer would not let an injured worker go to therapy during working hours when that is the only time the doctor can schedule the injured worker for an appointment? Before you answer the question, think about how it would be percieved as retaliation if the employer were to fire such employee for going to an appointment during work-hours.

Also, why would an employer not allow it if their own Network made the appointment? You and Cyjeff need to work on your comprehension because I NEVER SAID the employer IS REQUIRED to LET the employee go to therapy during work-hours. I did say that if such employee got fired for doing so, they would have an additional claim for damages (on top of Workers Comp. benefits) as a result of the language in 132(a) of the California Labor Code.

Statutes of Law are matters of interpretation...you need to use a little common sense while researching and interpreting the law here.

So as far as backing up my claim, I DID!! I gave you a Section of the Labor Code that shows no retaliation such as firing an injured worker for going to therapy during work hours because it wasn't able to be scheduled outside of work hours. I really thought you were at least intelligent enough to see that CBG and CYJEFF.

 

[cbg]

You gave us a section of the labor code that says an employer can't fire an employee for filing a workers comp claim. No one here has said they can. But nowhere in that section is there anything that grants the employee time off from work in order to go to doctor's appointments. In fact, everything I found suggests that the employee should make every effort to make their appointments before or after work.

The poster wanted to know if it's true that he has to make his appointments outside of work. It is true that the employer can make that requirement. The poster has not made any claim that he is unable to make his appointments outside of work. When and if that happens, he can come back and we can re-address the issue. But there IS NO LAW guaranteeing the poster that he will be able to make appointments during work hours with no repercussions. Whether it would be considered retaliation is far too situation specific to address with only the information we have here.

 

[Willlyjo]

Yup, I looked in 132(a) as well...couldn't find a thing about how an employee can take time off in the middle of any day they wanted for treatment.

continue to educate me... post the actual language you think justifies your statement.

and yes, Willy... every single time you post a "fact", you will have to back it up because you NEVER do.

Now, you will tell us to do our own research. I did. It isn't there. Of course, I am not stating a fact that cannot be backed up, either.

Show me, oh king of the single legal victory...

I'm sorry you and Cbg are having trouble understanding the language in 132(a)! It is all about retaliation against an injured worker for filing a Worker's Comp. Claim. I suppose you cannot reason that firing an injured worker for attending therapy sessions that sometimes gets scheduled during work hours is retaliation if the employer fires such employee for it, huh?

I can only do so much to help educate you guys. See you in the next thread!

 

[cbg]

Willy, as I said above, the exact circumstances make a lot of difference. If the employee was injured last week, hasn't missed any other time, and can't get an appointment outside of work hours, then yes, I would agree that it would fall under the labor code you quoted and would be retaliation. But what if the employee was out for a year, returned to work on a part time basis working only half time, and still scheduled his appointment during the hours he was supposed to be working? It would be much, much harder for the employee to claim retaliation in that case - in fact, it would be just about impossible.

I do not disagree with you that the employer should be willing to work with the employee on the issue. But you're painting with much too broad a stroke by suggesting that the employer MUST allow the time off and if he doesn't, it's guaranteed to be retaliation.

 

[Willlyjo]

You gave us a section of the labor code that says an employer can't fire an employee for filing a workers comp claim. No one here has said they can. But nowhere in that section is there anything that grants the employee time off from work in order to go to doctor's appointments. In fact, everything I found suggests that the employee should make every effort to make their appointments before or after work.

The poster wanted to know if it's true that he has to make his appointments outside of work. It is true that the employer can make that requirement. The poster has not made any claim that he is unable to make his appointments outside of work. When and if that happens, he can come back and we can re-address the issue. But there IS NO LAW guaranteeing the poster that he will be able to make appointments during work hours with no repercussions. Whether it would be considered retaliation is far too situation specific to address with only the information we have here.

Why does the OP have to come back and further address the situation when I already gave him enough information that would totally educate him on circumstances surrounding the attending therapy sessions during work-hours?

It would definitely be discrimination if an injured worker were to be fired from his job for attending therapy sessions during work hours that could not have been scheduled before or after work hours. It sometimes happens, it happened to me for pete's sakes.

In light of the OP's post, it looks like they thought they had a choice to go during work hours. Not so! It is most reasonable to schedule such appointments before or after. Just as it is most reasonable for the employer to let the employee attend therapy during work hours when it is impossible to attend before or after on a given day.

 

[cbg]

It's not that simple, Willy. Just because it happened to you does NOT mean that it's going to be the same for each and every case. You are making assumptions that do not necessarily hold up. The specific circumstances DO matter. You gave the poster your impression of how the law works - but in different circumstances than yours the law would not necessarily work the same way, and we do not know enough about our poster's circumstances to say which way it would go.

 

[Willlyjo]

Willy, as I said above, the exact circumstances make a lot of difference. If the employee was injured last week, hasn't missed any other time, and can't get an appointment outside of work hours, then yes, I would agree that it would fall under the labor code you quoted and would be retaliation. But what if the employee was out for a year, returned to work on a part time basis working only half time, and still scheduled his appointment during the hours he was supposed to be working? It would be much, much harder for the employee to claim retaliation in that case - in fact, it would be just about impossible.

I do not disagree with you that the employer should be willing to work with the employee on the issue. But you're painting with much too broad a stroke by suggesting that the employer MUST allow the time off and if he doesn't, it's guaranteed to be retaliation.

Aren't you painting too broad of a stroke by using a ludicris scenario like an injured worker returning to work on a part-time basis and then scheduling treatments during that time? Come on here...it would almost be impossible not to get into treatment during all the free time such employee would have to schedule it.