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Suspend Spousal and Child Support for Spouse and Child who have Disappeared

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thadc

Junior Member
Hello,

I provide spousal and child support to ex wife and 14 year old daughter (joint legal custody). The home court for the custody and divorce orders is Fairfax County Virginia (where I live). I allowed ex to temporarily move to CA to take of sick father 3 years ago. She never moved back. I won new order in VA court 12 months ago clarifying visitation (regular visits and communication) but allowing them to stay in CA. She immediately violated that and then suddenly disappeared (roughly 8 months ago). I set up hearing in Santa Cruz Superior court (where I knew they last lived) to enforce the out-of-state custody order. This required a personal service of ex wife. I hired a PI who last week was able to find ex's auto and trailer. However, when going to serve her, the trailer park management office informed the PI that her car trailer and just being kept in storage, and ex wife left them no forwarding address.

So.. no state or court can help me at this time. I have been doing all this pro se for the past three years and have no more money to spend for PIs or attorneys. I want to simply cut off all spousal and custody payments and wait for them to presumably show up as they run out of means to support themselves (i.e., my money). I have dutifully been making all payments (in spite of her numerous violations) up until now.

Is there a legal process for putting this money in escrow or something in VA so that she does not come out and accuse me of violating the terms of support? I am fine with going through the VA court system for this but don't know what a process might be. Grateful for any advise/guidance.

Thank you.
 


CTU

Meddlesome Priestess
Hello,

I provide spousal and child support to ex wife and 14 year old daughter (joint legal custody). The home court for the custody and divorce orders is Fairfax County Virginia (where I live). I allowed ex to temporarily move to CA to take of sick father 3 years ago. She never moved back. I won new order in VA court 12 months ago clarifying visitation (regular visits and communication) but allowing them to stay in CA. She immediately violated that and then suddenly disappeared (roughly 8 months ago). I set up hearing in Santa Cruz Superior court (where I knew they last lived) to enforce the out-of-state custody order. This required a personal service of ex wife. I hired a PI who last week was able to find ex's auto and trailer. However, when going to serve her, the trailer park management office informed the PI that her car trailer and just being kept in storage, and ex wife left them no forwarding address.

So.. no state or court can help me at this time. I have been doing all this pro se for the past three years and have no more money to spend for PIs or attorneys. I want to simply cut off all spousal and custody payments and wait for them to presumably show up as they run out of means to support themselves (i.e., my money). I have dutifully been making all payments (in spite of her numerous violations) up until now.

Is there a legal process for putting this money in escrow or something in VA so that she does not come out and accuse me of violating the terms of support? I am fine with going through the VA court system for this but don't know what a process might be. Grateful for any advise/guidance.

Thank you.
This would be an incredibly idiotic move. While you say you would shuffle the money into an account somewhere, the court will see that you're deliberately and willfully refusing to support your child - in effect, you will be punishing your child for the sins of her mother. It is NOT a good look for you.
 

thadc

Junior Member
This would be an incredibly idiotic move. While you say you would shuffle the money into an account somewhere, the court will see that you're deliberately and willfully refusing to support your child - in effect, you will be punishing your child for the sins of her mother. It is NOT a good look for you.
Wow, CTU, thanks for your dispassionate, non-judgemental response. I asked for advice and you provided troll-like judgement. I ask that you please stay clear of my thread if you cannot be helpful.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
Wow, CTU, thanks for your dispassionate, non-judgemental response. I asked for advice and you provided troll-like judgement. I ask that you please stay clear of my thread if you cannot be helpful.
While I understand your anger over your situation...being rude to CTU for her CORRECT post is wrong. I suggest you consult with a Family Law attorney to help you resolve this situation.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Hello,

I provide spousal and child support to ex wife and 14 year old daughter (joint legal custody). The home court for the custody and divorce orders is Fairfax County Virginia (where I live). I allowed ex to temporarily move to CA to take of sick father 3 years ago. She never moved back. I won new order in VA court 12 months ago clarifying visitation (regular visits and communication) but allowing them to stay in CA. She immediately violated that and then suddenly disappeared (roughly 8 months ago). I set up hearing in Santa Cruz Superior court (where I knew they last lived) to enforce the out-of-state custody order. This required a personal service of ex wife. I hired a PI who last week was able to find ex's auto and trailer. However, when going to serve her, the trailer park management office informed the PI that her car trailer and just being kept in storage, and ex wife left them no forwarding address.

So.. no state or court can help me at this time. I have been doing all this pro se for the past three years and have no more money to spend for PIs or attorneys. I want to simply cut off all spousal and custody payments and wait for them to presumably show up as they run out of means to support themselves (i.e., my money). I have dutifully been making all payments (in spite of her numerous violations) up until now.

Is there a legal process for putting this money in escrow or something in VA so that she does not come out and accuse me of violating the terms of support? I am fine with going through the VA court system for this but don't know what a process might be. Grateful for any advise/guidance.

Thank you.
Here's the thing...

You have a court order.

Your ex not following the court order doesn't give you the right to not follow the court order.

Paying child support is not a ticket to see your child. Your court order granting you parenting time is your ticket to see you child. What have you done to attempt to exercise your parenting time? You need to have proof that you tried to exercise your parenting time, and were not allowed to do so. You then need to go to court and move that she be found in contempt and that you want make up parenting time. Every state in the union has some form of "alternative service" when someone disappears and is determined to avoid service (and all other contact). So find out how to do it.

You do not have grounds to emancipate your 14 year old, and to stop paying court ordered child support is just shooting you in the foot, and makes you look as bad as her.

So tell us: does she, or has she ever had a restraining order against you? Does she have a restraining order against one of her more recent exes?
 

CTU

Meddlesome Priestess
Wow, CTU, thanks for your dispassionate, non-judgemental response. I asked for advice and you provided troll-like judgement. I ask that you please stay clear of my thread if you cannot be helpful.
Would you prefer I fluff it up a bit? I mean I'd rather not, but if it makes it easier to swallow I guess I could.

But let me ask you this:

Why do you think it's okay to punish your child?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Would you prefer I fluff it up a bit? I mean I'd rather not, but if it makes it easier to swallow I guess I could.

But let me ask you this:

Why do you think it's okay to punish your child?
I think that he was trying to find a way to flush mom out rather than deprive his child. He was willing to put it in escrow with the courts which would allow for it to be paid to mom as soon as she raised her head.

Its still a bad idea, but I can see why he would ask.

OP, how does she get the support? Child support often gets deposited to a debit card via the child support agency but does it work that way for both the child support and the spousal support in your case? Are you sure that the money is actually getting to her?

If she disappeared to the point where she is not even getting the money then perhaps you should be contacting her family to make sure that nothing untoward has happened.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
I think that he was trying to find a way to flush mom out rather than deprive his child. He was willing to put it in escrow with the courts which would allow for it to be paid to mom as soon as she raised her head.

Its still a bad idea, but I can see why he would ask.

OP, how does she get the support? Child support often gets deposited to a debit card via the child support agency but does it work that way for both the child support and the spousal support in your case? Are you sure that the money is actually getting to her?

If she disappeared to the point where she is not even getting the money then perhaps you should be contacting her family to make sure that nothing untoward has happened.
Here's the thing. Mom *is* already getting support. Dad just wants to stop paying to "flush her out".

At least, that's how the rest of us interpret the statement: I want to simply cut off all spousal and custody payments and wait for them to presumably show up as they run out of means to support themselves (i.e., my money). I have dutifully been making all payments (in spite of her numerous violations) up until now.

What you are describing would occur in a situation where there's no way to get support to Mom and Dad's trying to abide by the court order.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Here's the thing. Mom *is* already getting support. Dad just wants to stop paying to "flush her out".

At least, that's how the rest of us interpret the statement: I want to simply cut off all spousal and custody payments and wait for them to presumably show up as they run out of means to support themselves (i.e., my money). I have dutifully been making all payments (in spite of her numerous violations) up until now.

What you are describing would occur in a situation where there's no way to get support to Mom and Dad's trying to abide by the court order.
No, not really, at least not in the initial part of my post. In the initial part of my post I was showing some sympathy for a parent trying to find out a way to flush out the other parent, even if the idea was a bad one.

In the second part of my post (which I think that you are referring to) I was trying to make the point to dad that if mom isn't actually getting the money anyway, then perhaps dad should be making sure that nothing untoward has happened. I am actually trying to be a bit delicate in using the term "untoward".
 

thadc

Junior Member
I think that he was trying to find a way to flush mom out rather than deprive his child. He was willing to put it in escrow with the courts which would allow for it to be paid to mom as soon as she raised her head.

Its still a bad idea, but I can see why he would ask.

OP, how does she get the support? Child support often gets deposited to a debit card via the child support agency but does it work that way for both the child support and the spousal support in your case? Are you sure that the money is actually getting to her?

If she disappeared to the point where she is not even getting the money then perhaps you should be contacting her family to make sure that nothing untoward has happened.
Hi LdiJ, I am puzzled as to the confusion with my circumstances but maybe I was unclear. My ex wife has physical custody of the daughter with whom we share joint legal custody. I have not seen nor spoken with my daughter for two years (come 4/2/18). The reasons for the estrangement are entirely the fault of my ex wife, and the VA court found in my favor that she was in violation (disallowing visits and communication) when I received visitation clarification through a new order 1/17. Once in place, there were two visit required (CA to VA), both of which ex refused to send my daughter. VA court have no jurisdiction to enforce their order from 3000 miles away, so, in order to enforce, I had to file an out of state custody enforcement petition with CA. I had to serve my ex physically in order to compel her legally to show up in CA. However, in the past 9 months, she and my daughter have stopped communicating with me. They do not respond to any communications, and have moved from their last place of residence without notifying me (also a violation) and without leaving a forwarding address. In order to find them, I had to assume they were still in CA and hire a local PI to help. He was unsuccessful in finding her current residence, and there is evidence she has left the state entirely for Ohio.

In order to respond in a helpful way to my thread, one has to simply suspend judgement and accept at face value the reality that my ex is purposefully hiding my daughter from me, and that nothing untoward has happened to anyone, that this is simply a situation where a parent with legal rights to a relationship with his daughter is being denied access by the mother. But the father has no reasonable mechanism to address his concern since home court for custody order (VA ) has no jurisdiction in CA, and now father can't even transfer jurisdiction to CA because ex wife cannot be served and may have even left THAT state.

From the other responses to my inquiry (which astonish me), I should just keep sending spousal and child support to the same bank account I have for the past 5 years (recurring bi-monthly bank-to-bank transfers) to my phantom ex wife and phantom daughter, because that is what is in the best interest of my daughter?

Again, I am simply looking for the reasonable legal mechanism for addressing my circumstances. Thank you
 

HRZ

Senior Member
I can see some practical application in today's world of identity theft to stopping future payments to somebody whose very existence is unknown or unascertainable at the current time .

The risks of penalities and possible sanctions for missing a support payment are something best discussed with your attorney .
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
Hi LdiJ, I am puzzled as to the confusion with my circumstances but maybe I was unclear. My ex wife has physical custody of the daughter with whom we share joint legal custody. I have not seen nor spoken with my daughter for two years (come 4/2/18). The reasons for the estrangement are entirely the fault of my ex wife, and the VA court found in my favor that she was in violation (disallowing visits and communication) when I received visitation clarification through a new order 1/17. Once in place, there were two visit required (CA to VA), both of which ex refused to send my daughter. VA court have no jurisdiction to enforce their order from 3000 miles away, so, in order to enforce, I had to file an out of state custody enforcement petition with CA. I had to serve my ex physically in order to compel her legally to show up in CA. However, in the past 9 months, she and my daughter have stopped communicating with me. They do not respond to any communications, and have moved from their last place of residence without notifying me (also a violation) and without leaving a forwarding address. In order to find them, I had to assume they were still in CA and hire a local PI to help. He was unsuccessful in finding her current residence, and there is evidence she has left the state entirely for Ohio.

In order to respond in a helpful way to my thread, one has to simply suspend judgement and accept at face value the reality that my ex is purposefully hiding my daughter from me, and that nothing untoward has happened to anyone, that this is simply a situation where a parent with legal rights to a relationship with his daughter is being denied access by the mother. But the father has no reasonable mechanism to address his concern since home court for custody order (VA ) has no jurisdiction in CA, and now father can't even transfer jurisdiction to CA because ex wife cannot be served and may have even left THAT state.

From the other responses to my inquiry (which astonish me), I should just keep sending spousal and child support to the same bank account I have for the past 5 years (recurring bi-monthly bank-to-bank transfers) to my phantom ex wife and phantom daughter, because that is what is in the best interest of my daughter?

Again, I am simply looking for the reasonable legal mechanism for addressing my circumstances. Thank you
Can you think of a reason your ex would go to such great effort to hide your daughter from you? Was there abuse allegations during the divorce?:confused:
 

thadc

Junior Member
Can you think of a reason your ex would go to such great effort to hide your daughter from you? Was there abuse allegations during the divorce?:confused:
Yes of course she thinks she is protecting her daughter from me, but I am not here needing to defend myself against my ex wife, and the legal system would not have given us joint custody if they thought I was not a positive, loving influence to my child. I assure you I was always an outstanding father to my daughter, but I don't need to start a thread on a legal advice forum to defend myself. I could tell you my ex is wacky and that is why she is doing this, but I don't see how that is helpful in learning how to proceed with my current circumstances any more than your exploring her motivations.

Anyway, LdiJ suggested I need to get real legal advice, which is probably the simple truth. Sorry for wasting anyone's time here.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Yes of course she thinks she is protecting her daughter from me, but I am not here needing to defend myself against my ex wife, and the legal system would not have given us joint custody if they thought I was not a positive, loving influence to my child. I assure you I was always an outstanding father to my daughter, but I don't need to start a thread on a legal advice forum to defend myself. I could tell you my ex is wacky and that is why she is doing this, but I don't see how that is helpful in learning how to proceed with my current circumstances any more than your exploring her motivations.

Anyway, LdiJ suggested I need to get real legal advice, which is probably the simple truth. Sorry for wasting anyone's time here.
The thing is, you never answered my question about whether she had a restraining order against you.

The thing is, different situations require different tactics.

And the thing is, your LEGAL question has been CORRECTLY answered repeated: continue paying the spousal and child support in accordance with your court order, as you have been paying it, unless the court order changes, or whatever account you have been paying into is closed or blocks your payments.

If the account you are paying into suddenly is closed or blocks your payments, and you are not given information on how to get the money to her, THEN you wouldn't be blamed for setting up an escrow account to put aside your payments. At that time it would be a good idea to go to court and ask that your court order be altered to reflect the situation.

You daughter has no doubt been told all sorts of things about you. It would be really nice, wouldn't it, to have documentation showing that you paid support on time without fail, no matter what her mother said or did?

And guess what? It will make you look more credible in court. Cutting off your ex makes you look less credible. You want the judge to be pissed off at your ex, and think that you are the reasonable one. That's how you improve your probability of getting your way.

In fact, if you approached this whole thing reasonably, you'd stand a chance of actually getting custody changed, and her having to pay YOU child support. But you come across as just being bitter about the ex, not desperately missing your child. You have a custody and visitation problem and are posting under alimony and spousal support. That is very telling.
 
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