• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

is a warrent legal if it does not contain the specifics required by rule 41

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

playtoy608

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

is a warrant legal if it does not contain the specifics required by rule 41
was served a warrant. the only thing on the warrant was a place to be searched. The rest said see attachment a and b. When executed the attachments were not with the warrant and when asked received a reply of a judge signed it, its legal. after consulting a criminal lawyer on this I got a I don't know. the attachments took 3 weeks to get. my opinion is the search warrant was not valid because it did not conform to rule 41 or if legal they could only search for attachment a and b. Everything else was stolen. nothing was specific. did they violate the 4th amendment. as far as i am concerned these are not minor infractions on this warrant. fyi have not been arrested nor had any response from anyone for 4 years and hearing rumors of employees being arrested. guess I may be next.
This was done by a secret service agent. I did not know what they were searching for and gave no permission for any searches. Was placed under confinement with a police officer over me so I couldn't move. Repeatedly told you are not under arrest. The inventory was done without me present, handed a piece of paper while they were leaving, had some cash and equipment on it but no signatures were on it. Also read that the warrant must have time and day on it and it does not. it has to be executed on or before the 16th of July but not an actual date and time of July 10th 2014 at 10:15 am. Also got a question on the knock, no-knock part of a warrant. It did not say it was a no-knock warrant but they stormed our business with guns and screamed where are the guns and drugs and didn't identify themselves until I approached one of them and asked. by the way its a wire fraud warrant. need more ask but I don't know anything and can not afford a lawyer because of disability I am on and barely living.
 


quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

is a warrant legal if it does not contain the specifics required by rule 41
was served a warrant. the only thing on the warrant was a place to be searched. The rest said see attachment a and b. When executed the attachments were not with the warrant and when asked received a reply of a judge signed it, its legal. after consulting a criminal lawyer on this I got a I don't know. the attachments took 3 weeks to get. my opinion is the search warrant was not valid because it did not conform to rule 41 or if legal they could only search for attachment a and b. Everything else was stolen. nothing was specific. did they violate the 4th amendment. as far as i am concerned these are not minor infractions on this warrant. fyi have not been arrested nor had any response from anyone for 4 years and hearing rumors of employees being arrested. guess I may be next.
This was done by a secret service agent. I did not know what they were searching for and gave no permission for any searches. Was placed under confinement with a police officer over me so I couldn't move. Repeatedly told you are not under arrest. The inventory was done without me present, handed a piece of paper while they were leaving, had some cash and equipment on it but no signatures were on it. Also read that the warrant must have time and day on it and it does not. it has to be executed on or before the 16th of July but not an actual date and time of July 10th 2014 at 10:15 am. Also got a question on the knock, no-knock part of a warrant. It did not say it was a no-knock warrant but they stormed our business with guns and screamed where are the guns and drugs and didn't identify themselves until I approached one of them and asked. by the way its a wire fraud warrant. need more ask but I don't know anything and can not afford a lawyer because of disability I am on and barely living.
From the sounds of it, you cannot afford to NOT have an attorney.

Without seeing the warrant and what was seized, it is impossible to say if your rights were infringed.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
I'm going to assume this was a federal warrant due to the fact the secret service was involved and the oblique reference to the FEDERAL rules of criminal procedure.

Your fourth amendment rights were not violated if a warrant was issued. The law doesn't require the warrant to be given to you to be valid. Rule 41 just says that you have to be given a copy if any items were taken as a result of the warrant. The only thing a regular search warrant needs to list is the property to be searched or seized and the judge the warrant will be returned to. All the other supporting information (the affidavit and other information presented to the judge to get the warrant) is often attached to the warrant, but it's not required to be there.

If items were taken or you are facing criminal charges, you need to have a lawyer look at it. He can determine if their was defects in the search and what to do about it.

As far as your CONSTITUTIONAL rights not to be searched, Rule 41 has no applicability. As long as a judge issued a warrant (properly), then your rights have been preserved.
 

playtoy608

Junior Member
I'm going to assume this was a federal warrant due to the fact the secret service was involved and the oblique reference to the FEDERAL rules of criminal procedure.

Your fourth amendment rights were not violated if a warrant was issued. The law doesn't require the warrant to be given to you to be valid. Rule 41 just says that you have to be given a copy if any items were taken as a result of the warrant. The only thing a regular search warrant needs to list is the property to be searched or seized and the judge the warrant will be returned to. All the other supporting information (the affidavit and other information presented to the judge to get the warrant) is often attached to the warrant, but it's not required to be there.

If items were taken or you are facing criminal charges, you need to have a lawyer look at it. He can determine if their was defects in the search and what to do about it.

As far as your CONSTITUTIONAL rights not to be searched, Rule 41 has no applicability. As long as a judge issued a warrant (properly), then your rights have been preserved.

To start yes this was a federal warrant and no I have not been charged or contacted by anyone from law enforcement for about 4 years. just rumors of arrests. So if I read you right then technically I, as an owner, had no right to know what these law enforcement officers were doing. as far as what they took I am to be satisfied that a sheet of paper with some writing on it is valid. no signatures were on the sheet or to whom the inventory was done by and not in my presence so I don't know what was really taken. Seems to me there is no responsibility there for the handling of what may become evidence. and how do I know it hasn't been tampered with since no officer said they did it.(includes computers and electronic equipment) And as you said above that the warrant should state the property to be searched or seized. This one does not and refers to attachments. attachments that were not served. Kind of gives law enforcement the ability to do what they want and leave all in the dark. hoping for better but not less than I expected.

As far as an attorney goes the above poster is right I probably do need one but unfortunately a fixed income less than or right at poverty level doesn't leave much room. got to live. so I guess I will sit tight, go along for the ride, and wait for a court appointed attorney if anything happens. After all I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch but do have the ability to research. also didn't see a way to post pic of warrant but as you said I was not privy to that any way. presuming its a public document.
Also you stated above( If items were taken or you are facing criminal charges, you need to have a lawyer look at it.) I have had no less than 5 criminal attorneys at the moment that have seen the paperwork I was given and have been getting a I Don't Know. They all say they have to call the prosecutor and find out. if that isn't shady don't know what is. Thanks for the information
 

quincy

Senior Member
To start yes this was a federal warrant and no I have not been charged or contacted by anyone from law enforcement for about 4 years. just rumors of arrests. So if I read you right then technically I, as an owner, had no right to know what these law enforcement officers were doing. as far as what they took I am to be satisfied that a sheet of paper with some writing on it is valid. no signatures were on the sheet or to whom the inventory was done by and not in my presence so I don't know what was really taken. Seems to me there is no responsibility there for the handling of what may become evidence. and how do I know it hasn't been tampered with since no officer said they did it.(includes computers and electronic equipment) And as you said above that the warrant should state the property to be searched or seized. This one does not and refers to attachments. attachments that were not served. Kind of gives law enforcement the ability to do what they want and leave all in the dark. hoping for better but not less than I expected.

As far as an attorney goes the above poster is right I probably do need one but unfortunately a fixed income less than or right at poverty level doesn't leave much room. got to live. so I guess I will sit tight, go along for the ride, and wait for a court appointed attorney if anything happens. After all I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch but do have the ability to research. also didn't see a way to post pic of warrant but as you said I was not privy to that any way. presuming its a public document.
Also you stated above( If items were taken or you are facing criminal charges, you need to have a lawyer look at it.) I have had no less than 5 criminal attorneys at the moment that have seen the paperwork I was given and have been getting a I Don't Know. They all say they have to call the prosecutor and find out. if that isn't shady don't know what is. Thanks for the information
You have the right to an itemized list of property belonging to you that was seized. You should have been given a receipt for these items so you can later claim them.

If you have had "no less than 5 criminal attorneys" look at the documents and these 5 criminal attorneys cannot provide you with the answers you seek, it is highly unlikely a forum can do much better.

If charged with a crime, exercise your right to remain silent. Answer no questions posed to you without your attorney's okay (whether this is a private attorney you retain or an attorney appointed by the court to represent you).

Good luck.
 

playtoy608

Junior Member
From the sounds of it, you cannot afford to NOT have an attorney.

Without seeing the warrant and what was seized, it is impossible to say if your rights were infringed.
didn't see a way to post pic of warrant but as you said I am apparently not privy to that any way. presuming its a public document.
I have had no less than 5 criminal attorneys at the moment that have seen the paperwork I was given and have been getting a I Don't Know. They all say they have to call the prosecutor and find out. if that isn't shady don't know what is. Thanks for the information
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
didn't see a way to post pic of warrant but as you said I am apparently not privy to that any way. presuming its a public document.
I have had no less than 5 criminal attorneys at the moment that have seen the paperwork I was given and have been getting a I Don't Know. They all say they have to call the prosecutor and find out. if that isn't shady don't know what is. Thanks for the information
It's not shady in the least. The five attorneys who told you that they don't know really don't know. They would have to expend time and energy to research it, and that ain't free. Therefor, the statement that they "don't know" is the God's honest truth.
 

quincy

Senior Member
didn't see a way to post pic of warrant but as you said I am apparently not privy to that any way. presuming its a public document.
I have had no less than 5 criminal attorneys at the moment that have seen the paperwork I was given and have been getting a I Don't Know. They all say they have to call the prosecutor and find out. if that isn't shady don't know what is. Thanks for the information
FreeAdvice as a rule does not permit new poster's to post or link to documents.

If you have a law school in your area, perhaps a benevolent criminal law professor will take a look and offer an opinion.

Good luck.
 

playtoy608

Junior Member
Are you saying the address of your property like 123 Main St your city FL wasn't on the search warrant?
No I did not say that. it had an address of a building location(store) but searched vehicles, my person, and off site property. rest referred to an attachment(A) that was not served and may have covered all areas. thing is I don't know that. also property to be seized only refers to an attachment B. Nothing else there.To me this warrant should have been three documents to show me what was going on but did not.
thanks for reply
 

quincy

Senior Member
No I did not say that. it had an address of a building location(store) but searched vehicles, my person, and off site property. rest referred to an attachment(A) that was not served and may have covered all areas. thing is I don't know that. also property to be seized only refers to an attachment B. Nothing else there.To me this warrant should have been three documents to show me what was going on but did not.
thanks for reply
Often the attachments will be left with a copy of the warrant and a receipt for the items seized. If these were not left at the property, you can get copies from the prosecutor.
 

playtoy608

Junior Member
FreeAdvice as a rule does not permit new poster's to post or link to documents.

If you have a law school in your area, perhaps a benevolent criminal law professor will take a look and offer an opinion.

Good luck.
Thanks to everyone who posted information. I realize the a free advice forum is not going to give me any answers I seek but may provide me with a direction to go. maybe things I haven't thought about. And as far as experienced attorneys go you would think this may have come up before but apparently not and do understand their research. Just trying to use their own rules and regulations to make sense of it all. Thanks again for all the replys
 

playtoy608

Junior Member
Often the attachments will be left with a copy of the warrant and a receipt for the items seized. If these were not left at the property, you can get copies from the prosecutor.
Hi Quincy, you are right about getting all the documents from the prosecutor. this was done by a highly respected lawyer here in fl. but that was my point. can you have something that only law enforcement, prosecutors and judges are privy too to make the warrant but leave the person served with out knowledge. But in your earlier post you did say I did not need to know. and thanks for the suggestions and will look into that.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Thanks to everyone who posted information. I realize the a free advice forum is not going to give me any answers I seek but may provide me with a direction to go. maybe things I haven't thought about. And as far as experienced attorneys go you would think this may have come up before but apparently not and do understand their research. Just trying to use their own rules and regulations to make sense of it all. Thanks again for all the replys
Thanks for the thanks, playtoy608. We all appreciate the appreciation, especially given our limitations in being able to help you as you hoped we could.

Good luck.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
And as far as experienced attorneys go you would think this may have come up before but apparently not and do understand their research.
Whether it's come up before doesn't really matter. They would have to research all of the facts as they relate to your case.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top