• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

is it legal for her to record my mom and I without our consent at our house?

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

blue_mt001

Junior Member
I live in California. I am witness over an incident between my 2 nephews and my sister ( age 30) which my sister started to hit my nephews with a wooden spatula. I told my mom and she called the cops which made a police report. Few days later the cps came and visited my sister. Then cps interviewed my mom and I and then took the kids. My question is it legal for her to record my mom and I without our consent at our house. She didn't inform us or made us sign anything. The children social worker is planning to use the audio record at the court.
 
Last edited:


CTU

Meddlesome Priestess
I live in California. I am witness over an incident between my 2 nephews and my sister ( age 30) which my sister started to hit my nephews with a wooden spatula. I told my mom and she called the cops which made a police report. Few days later the cps came and visited my sister. Then cps interviewed my mom and I and then took the kids. My question is it legal for her to record my mom and I without our consent at our house. She didn't inform us or made us sign anything. The children social worker is planning to use the audio record at the court.
Just to clarify, are you saying that a CPS worker made an audio recording without your knowledge?

And the children were removed without a court order?
 

blue_mt001

Junior Member
Just to clarify, are you saying that a CPS worker made an audio recording without your knowledge?

And the children were removed without a court order?
Yes the children are already removed; aond yes CPS worker made an audio record without my knowledge. My sister now has court hearing for this Tuesday.
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
There are some exemptions to California's all party consent statute. I think this might be it since it mentions domestic violence:

633.5.Sections 631, 632, 632.5, 632.6, and 632.7 do not prohibit one party to a confidential communication from recording the communication for the purpose of obtaining evidence reasonably believed to relate to the commission by another party to the communication of the crime of extortion, kidnapping, bribery, any felony involving violence against the person, including, but not limited to, human trafficking, as defined in Section 236.1, or a violation of Section 653m, or domestic violence as defined in Section 13700. Sections 631, 632, 632.5, 632.6, and 632.7 do not render any evidence so obtained inadmissible in a prosecution for extortion, kidnapping, bribery, any felony involving violence against the person, including, but not limited to, human trafficking, as defined in Section 236.1, a violation of Section 653m, or domestic violence as defined in Section 13700, or any crime in connection therewith.
There may be other exemptions:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&division=&title=15.&part=1.&chapter=1.5.&article=

As for taking the kids without a court order, your sister could have refused to allow them to be taken, the social worker could have had her arrested for assault and gotten the kids anyway.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Yes the children are already removed; aond yes CPS worker made an audio record without my knowledge. My sister now has court hearing for this Tuesday.
In 2014 there was a bill introduced, "Sammy's Law", essentially requiring CPS workers to record their investigative interviews. The intent was to force CPS to provide proof backing up their (potentially subjective) findings. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB1828

If this passed, then you have nothing to complain about; they did not violate the law.

I will make an observation: based on the information you and your mother provided, the children were removed. Your concern is what? That your sister will hear what you said behind her back about her parenting? If that's the case, looke in the mirror and curse at yourself - not CPS.

For future reference: say as little to CPS as possible, unless you believe a child needs to be removed from an abusive situation.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Sammy's law died in Committee in 2014.

As for the exception provided under PC 633.5, I am unfamiliar of any local CPS agencies making surreptitious recordings, but it could very well be an exemption. When CPS tends to make recordings, they are either made with law enforcement on scene (as a result, the recording is made by law enforcement), or, through the use of an obvious device or informing the parents/guardians/et al. of the presence of a recording device.

In CA CPS has the authority to take children into protective custody regardless of the parents' acceptance. A hearing must be held in short order, but the absence of a court does not prevent them from seizing the children with cause. Smacking the children with a wooden spoon may well be sufficient to take the children pursuant to W&I 300.
 
Last edited:

LdiJ

Senior Member
Sammy's law died in Committee in 2014.

As for the exception provided under PC 633.5, I am unfamiliar of any local CPS agencies making surreptitious recordings, but it could very well be an exemption. When CPS tends to make recordings, they are either made with law enforcement on scene (as a result, the recording is made by law enforcement), or, through the use of an obvious device or informing the parents/guardians/et al. of the presence of a recording device.

In CA CPS has the authority to take children into protective custody regardless of the parents' acceptance. A hearing must be held in short order, but the absence of a court does not prevent them from seizing the children with cause. Smacking the children with a wooden spoon may well be sufficient to take the children pursuant to W&I 300.
I am not much impressed by parents, at all, who use kitchen utensils to punish their children, but most wooden spoons could not do much damage. They are very light. I am not sure that I would call CPS over that. Plastic and metal utensils would cause a lot more damage in my opinion.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
I am not much impressed by parents, at all, who use kitchen utensils to punish their children, but most wooden spoons could not do much damage. They are very light. I am not sure that I would call CPS over that. Plastic and metal utensils would cause a lot more damage in my opinion.
Your opinion is not legally relevant.

What is relevant is 1) whether the recording was legally obtained (OP's question), 2) whether the recording is admissible in court (OP's concern), 3) whether OP's focus should be focused on the legality of the recording or not.

Given that caseworkers are allowed to report their findings from a CPS investigation into abuse without using a recording, I think OP needs to focus on the bigger issue: the kids and why they are in foster care. OP could try to get the CPS worker in trouble about the recording, but that alone will not undo the findings.

The fact is, a grandmother observed her daughter hitting the grandbabies with the utensil(s) and was concerned enough to file a police report. In my experience, by the time a person reports a family member to the police, there's been some pretty egregious things going on.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I am not much impressed by parents, at all, who use kitchen utensils to punish their children, but most wooden spoons could not do much damage. They are very light. I am not sure that I would call CPS over that. Plastic and metal utensils would cause a lot more damage in my opinion.
I was spanked by much worse in my day, but, the fact remains that smacking with a wooden spoon could be enough to support criminal charges or, at the least, the detention of the children.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
The fact is, a grandmother observed her daughter hitting the grandbabies with the utensil(s) and was concerned enough to file a police report. In my experience, by the time a person reports a family member to the police, there's been some pretty egregious things going on.
I tend to agree.

It would be rare for a single incident of a couple of swats with a wooden spoon to result in the seizure of children ... unless raised welts still existed when CPS arrived.

I suspect there was more to the tale than a single incident of spoon swatting.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Your opinion is not legally relevant.

What is relevant is 1) whether the recording was legally obtained (OP's question), 2) whether the recording is admissible in court (OP's concern), 3) whether OP's focus should be focused on the legality of the recording or not.

Given that caseworkers are allowed to report their findings from a CPS investigation into abuse without using a recording, I think OP needs to focus on the bigger issue: the kids and why they are in foster care. OP could try to get the CPS worker in trouble about the recording, but that alone will not undo the findings.

The fact is, a grandmother observed her daughter hitting the grandbabies with the utensil(s) and was concerned enough to file a police report. In my experience, by the time a person reports a family member to the police, there's been some pretty egregious things going on.
That is likely to be a very valid point...

However, when trying to judge, in my own mind, whether or not the action taken by cps or anyone else was reasonable, or could be viewed as reasonable, I try to either imagine or test.

In this instance I was just in the kitchen and decided to test. So I swatted myself on the leg with one of my wooden spoons. I think that I would have much preferred a wooden spoon to some of the things that I got punished with as a child. It didn't even sting. I believe that the lack of a flat surface makes a difference.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
That is likely to be a very valid point...

However, when trying to judge, in my own mind, whether or not the action taken by cps or anyone else was reasonable, or could be viewed as reasonable, I try to either imagine or test.

In this instance I was just in the kitchen and decided to test. So I swatted myself on the leg with one of my wooden spoons. I think that I would have much preferred a wooden spoon to some of the things that I got punished with as a child. It didn't even sting. I believe that the lack of a flat surface makes a difference.
Why don't you like an angered (daresay, enraged) parent swat at you a few dozen times with that wooden spoon?
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
I am not much impressed by parents, at all, who use kitchen utensils to punish their children, but most wooden spoons could not do much damage. They are very light. I am not sure that I would call CPS over that. Plastic and metal utensils would cause a lot more damage in my opinion.
Wooden spoons can do a HECK OF A LOT OF DAMAGE.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top