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Restraining Order - Toeing the line

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unsure-0083

Junior Member
Restraining Order

Location: California


Got an RO in July against an acquaintance who was infatuated with me. He started getting very clingy and stalkerish. Always turning up at a public place I frequent - pretending it was a coincidence. Repeatedly told him I was uncomfortable. Found out he was married with two kids. Had also lied about some other big things. He comes across as very socially awkward. After I told him in no uncertain terms to back off and cut off contact he would just be there on the street near my house (nowhere near his house or work) at the time he knew I was going to and from work. I'd also see him in his car on my way out of work several times a week and around my car every time I was at the place mentioned above. It was FAR too coincidental. Then I found a tracker on my car. I also suspect he was in my house. Can't prove it was him but he is the only one who kept showing up. Have tons of emails of email where he admits his behavior was "pestering" and "sneaky". In the end, he stipulated to the order so I wasn't able to provide that documentation to the court.

I still see him at the public place mentioned above. I began noticing that if I'd see him in one area, he is always right on the street as I am leaving (20 - 60 minutes later). The timing to enable him to HAPPEN to be there is not possible without a huge effort on his part. In other words, it is not a coincidence - he is lying in wait. In a correspondence pre RO when I was telling him to back off, he said "I am afraid if you don't see me, you are going to forget about me". He is deliberately making sure I "see" him.

So technically he is not violating the RO but I find this creepy and unnerving. After 4 months of this I have started tracking when this happens (currently it is happening almost every time I am at this place - 3x a week).

I called the Victims Advocate with the DA. She said this was a clear violation and to call the police every time. Really don't want to call the police for a non emergency when the guy will be long gone by the time they get there.

I called the detective on the original case. He say since the location where this is happening isn't listed on the RO he isn't in violation. Further, my Excel spread sheet noting the times / events will do me no good because it is the creepy guy's word against mine.

This guy is continuing the stalking-ike behavior that got him the RO and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do. Not sure who is right, the Victims Advocate or the detective or what I can do. I am continuing to document and to try to get photos as well.
First of all..I gave my opinion. I may come on here once every six months when i have nothing to do which isn't often....I think people that are on here all of time need to get a life. Almost all of the people who comment here are not Lawyers and don't even know what they are talking about...I know for a fact, many people who post here never give 100% truthful info- because they fear others whom visit this site may figure out who it is. I understand that. But laws differ from state to state. If you don't tell the truth about where you live you may not receive accurate information.

Those who get nasty and criticize others on here need to get other interests. Unless they get paid for monitoring this site or expressing their opinions who cares****************************.....I agree the Post sounds a bit sketchy. As if a lot of true info is not being disclosed here. The Poster is probably not even from California. I meant who would be bothered with GPS devices unless that was their profession.....I never knew anyone that placed GPS devices on cars- but maybe my associates and friends are normal.
 


quincy

Senior Member
First of all..I gave my opinion. I may come on here once every six months when i have nothing to do which isn't often....I think people that are on here all of time need to get a life. Almost all of the people who comment here are not Lawyers and don't even know what they are talking about...I know for a fact, many people who post here never give 100% truthful info- because they fear others whom visit this site may figure out who it is. I understand that. But laws differ from state to state. If you don't tell the truth about where you live you may not receive accurate information.
None of what you wrote above excuses the misinformation you posted.

Those who get nasty and criticize others on here need to get other interests. Unless they get paid for monitoring this site or expressing their opinions who cares****************************.....I agree the Post sounds a bit sketchy. As if a lot of true info is not being disclosed here. The Poster is probably not even from California. I meant who would be bothered with GPS devices unless that was their profession.....I never knew anyone that placed GPS devices on cars- but maybe my associates and friends are normal.
I think you might want to make your time between posting to this forum a little bit longer. ;)
 

unsure-0083

Junior Member
Restraining Order:

At least it is only "Today's Posts" and the drug charges forum that are being affected by the spammers. It could be worse. :)
Quincy and Others **************......Please get a life****************************...My husband is an Attorney in Denver for over 18 years******************************************.What law University did you Graduate from??
 

TheGeekess

Keeper of the Kraken
Quincy and Others **************......Please get a life****************************...My husband is an Attorney in Denver for over 18 years******************************************.What law University did you Graduate from??
Oh, it's the OG Effect with a twist! :cool:
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
Quincy and Others **************......Please get a life****************************...My husband is an Attorney in Denver for over 18 years******************************************.What law University did you Graduate from??
My best friend is an attorney. Whats your point? After vetting your husband can feel free to post with his special knowledge. BTW...What University did YOU graduate from? :rolleyes:

PxHx Folks....OP started a thread a few months ago. If OP does have a spouse attorney....why did s/he post on the net regarding her/his issue?
 
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quincy

Senior Member
Quincy and Others **************......Please get a life****************************...My husband is an Attorney in Denver for over 18 years******************************************.What law University did you Graduate from??
unsure-0083, when you post incorrect information on this forum, the odds are pretty good someone will come along to correct it. That is how this forum works.

It is nice that your husband is an attorney in Denver. That doesn't make what YOU posted any more correct, though. ;)
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
First of all..I gave my opinion. I may come on here once every six months when i have nothing to do which isn't often....I think people that are on here all of time need to get a life. Almost all of the people who comment here are not Lawyers and don't even know what they are talking about...I know for a fact, many people who post here never give 100% truthful info- because they fear others whom visit this site may figure out who it is. I understand that. But laws differ from state to state. If you don't tell the truth about where you live you may not receive accurate information.

Those who get nasty and criticize others on here need to get other interests. Unless they get paid for monitoring this site or expressing their opinions who cares****************************.....I agree the Post sounds a bit sketchy. As if a lot of true info is not being disclosed here. The Poster is probably not even from California. I meant who would be bothered with GPS devices unless that was their profession.....I never knew anyone that placed GPS devices on cars- but maybe my associates and friends are normal.
With whom are you agreeing? I see no one other than yourself stating this.

Other than your initial thread, this is the only thread that you posted in. It seems odd, given that you apparently have nothing insightful to contribute, and have only made misstatements.

There is no reason to believe that OP is not posting from CA. However, in general, if there is a RO, no matter what the state, there are restrictions on someone. They are precluded from being near you (an actual distance is usually specified), even if in a public space, unless there is some language explicitly allowing for exception(s). The alleged stalker is violating the RO here. Period. OP should report the violation each and every time. The guy knows her schedule and rather than avoiding OP, he goes out of his way to engineer "chance" encounters.

A retired law enforcement professional from OP's state responded to this thread.

A lawyer who responded to this thread and told you that you were wrong, and that the retired cop gave sound advice.

You are not a lawyer.

Maybe the reason your colleagues at work in Chicago Hawaii shun you at work is because you behave as exemplary as you do here. Thank you for at least learning not to type in all caps.
 

Shadowbunny

Queen of the Not-Rights
Quincy and Others **************......Please get a life****************************...My husband is an Attorney in Denver for over 18 years******************************************.What law University did you Graduate from??
My husband has been an IT professional for 20+ years, yet I don't go around giving atrociously bad coding advice. (And may I suggest the services of an IT professional in Denver? It appears that your * button is stuck. As is your shift-lock, because it it seems to be capitalizing random words.)
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
As far as Public places like a Food Store or Gym etc: As long as the person is not purposely attempting to annoy or garnish your attention while at the Gym or Grocery store- it is not a Violation . Everyone has a right to go to a Public place. I find it odd that this person is at all these places 3x a week- every time you are there. However- if you purposely try to aggravate or upset the person while at these public places- that is a different story.
While the INITIAL contact might be seen as incidental by a prosecutor or the court, remaining in a place where you are in violation of the TRO will get you arrested. Likewise, if these coincidences happen with some frequency, it can be considered stalking. I have arrested and seen suspects go to jail for far less than what the OP describes.

I live in a town where there are only two major grocery stores, all the chain fast food places are within 1,500' of each other, and the only three gas stations are on alternate corners of the same intersection. Even HERE it is exceedingly unlikely that you will hear of incidental contacts as the OP describes that will not be prosecuted as stalking and/or a TRO violation.
 

Cranford

Junior Member
Update of sorts

While the INITIAL contact might be seen as incidental by a prosecutor or the court, remaining in a place where you are in violation of the TRO will get you arrested. Likewise, if these coincidences happen with some frequency, it can be considered stalking. I have arrested and seen suspects go to jail for far less than what the OP describes.

I live in a town where there are only two major grocery stores, all the chain fast food places are within 1,500' of each other, and the only three gas stations are on alternate corners of the same intersection. Even HERE it is exceedingly unlikely that you will hear of incidental contacts as the OP describes that will not be prosecuted as stalking and/or a TRO violation.
For clarity, I am seeing this guy on a running trail around a lake. Before escalating the matter I started tracking when when I'd see him.
- He sees my car in the parking lot (there was no way he doesn't see it and he does not park at the lake so I have no way to know if he is there when I arrive) and decides to continue around the lake anyway
- He then passes me at some point around the lake
- Then he is in the same proximity to the exit when I leave (I am in my car and he is on foot always within the same 100 feet)
- Recently, if he sees me early in my run and late in his run he passes going in the opposite direction, then loops around again and passes me at my 4 mile mark. Once he passes me he cuts down a side path and is on the road as I drive away.

If he sees me early in his run and late in my run he skips the "meet up" at the 4 mile marker. Once I ducked down on the lower path so he missed me at the mid-way point. When I got back to the parking lot he was there 3o feet from my car looking around as if to say 'where the * did she go?"

Of the 22 weekdays I recently ran (I can vary my time / running location on weekends) I saw him x1 during one run, X2 over nine runs, 3x over four runs. This does not include times he had to have seen my car before running. This seems beyond coincidence - not to mention he has every opportunity to leave the vicinity.

Before I started tracking I spoke with the DA's Victim Advocate - she said "clear violation call the police every time. I spoke with the detective and he said "dicey - the lake isn't on the list but if you don't call the police it didn't happen". So after I started tracking and figured it wasn't my imagination I called the police. The first time the cop said "try running somewhere else", the second time they said try to get the lake on the list and in the meantime they would pass the information on to the detective and then perhaps he would send to the DA. The detective called today and seemed annoyed at me. He said he told me before I had to get the lake added to the list. That isn't what he said exactly but I wasn't going to argue.

Here are my questions:
1. Does anyone know any relevant case law that I can use if I file an additional RO for this location?
2. Does anyone with legal / police experience have insight to whether there is a chance to get this public place added to the list of places he needs to stay away from (if it matters, I have been going to this lake for more than 20 years. He has only been going there two years)?
3. Can I use details, information from prior to the first RO for this RO?

He stipulated to the charges when I got the original RO so I wasn't able to enter in emails where he admitted stalking me. This current behavior mimics the behavior that was the reason for the first RO - Always wanting to be seen by me in my neighborhood, near my work. He said in an email to me that he was his fear was "...if you don't see me (at the lake) you'll forget about me".

Appreciate any insight. I am just concerned how he will escalate this any further.
 

Shadowbunny

Queen of the Not-Rights
Oh, Cranford -- I can't imagine how frustrating this is.

This site details how to amend an RO: http://www.courts.ca.gov/34737.htm

And cdwjava knows California law -- I'm sure he'll be along soon.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
For clarity, I am seeing this guy on a running trail around a lake. Before escalating the matter I started tracking when when I'd see him.
- He sees my car in the parking lot (there was no way he doesn't see it and he does not park at the lake so I have no way to know if he is there when I arrive) and decides to continue around the lake anyway
- He then passes me at some point around the lake
- Then he is in the same proximity to the exit when I leave (I am in my car and he is on foot always within the same 100 feet)
- Recently, if he sees me early in my run and late in his run he passes going in the opposite direction, then loops around again and passes me at my 4 mile mark. Once he passes me he cuts down a side path and is on the road as I drive away.

If he sees me early in his run and late in my run he skips the "meet up" at the 4 mile marker. Once I ducked down on the lower path so he missed me at the mid-way point. When I got back to the parking lot he was there 3o feet from my car looking around as if to say 'where the * did she go?"

Of the 22 weekdays I recently ran (I can vary my time / running location on weekends) I saw him x1 during one run, X2 over nine runs, 3x over four runs. This does not include times he had to have seen my car before running. This seems beyond coincidence - not to mention he has every opportunity to leave the vicinity.

Before I started tracking I spoke with the DA's Victim Advocate - she said "clear violation call the police every time. I spoke with the detective and he said "dicey - the lake isn't on the list but if you don't call the police it didn't happen". So after I started tracking and figured it wasn't my imagination I called the police. The first time the cop said "try running somewhere else", the second time they said try to get the lake on the list and in the meantime they would pass the information on to the detective and then perhaps he would send to the DA. The detective called today and seemed annoyed at me. He said he told me before I had to get the lake added to the list. That isn't what he said exactly but I wasn't going to argue.

Here are my questions:
1. Does anyone know any relevant case law that I can use if I file an additional RO for this location?
2. Does anyone with legal / police experience have insight to whether there is a chance to get this public place added to the list of places he needs to stay away from (if it matters, I have been going to this lake for more than 20 years. He has only been going there two years)?
3. Can I use details, information from prior to the first RO for this RO?

He stipulated to the charges when I got the original RO so I wasn't able to enter in emails where he admitted stalking me. This current behavior mimics the behavior that was the reason for the first RO - Always wanting to be seen by me in my neighborhood, near my work. He said in an email to me that he was his fear was "...if you don't see me (at the lake) you'll forget about me".

Appreciate any insight. I am just concerned how he will escalate this any further.
In my opinion you really need to find somewhere else to run. If he cannot access you, then either he will gradually forget you exist and leave you alone, or he will escalate to someone that IS on the RO and you will be able to have him arrested.
 

Cranford

Junior Member
In my opinion you really need to find somewhere else to run. If he cannot access you, then either he will gradually forget you exist and leave you alone, or he will escalate to someone that IS on the RO and you will be able to have him arrested.
I see your point however, I did start going somewhere else and he followed me there. That area is more remote. The lake is well populated and no car traffic which is important since I run after work. I have few options given my schedule and the fact I don't like street running during commute time when people are driving stupid. The only places on the RO are my car (which he is near at the lake) my work and my house.

And, yes I am stubborn. Why should my world become smaller because of his behavior?
 

Cranford

Junior Member
Oh, Cranford -- I can't imagine how frustrating this is.

This site details how to amend an RO: http://www.courts.ca.gov/34737.htm

And cdwjava knows California law -- I'm sure he'll be along soon.
Thank you! I will check out the link. I also have a call in to the Victim's Advocate.
 

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