• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Restraining Order - Toeing the line

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

Cranford

Junior Member
Location: California


Got an RO in July against an acquaintance who was infatuated with me. He started getting very clingy and stalkerish. Always turning up at a public place I frequent - pretending it was a coincidence. Repeatedly told him I was uncomfortable. Found out he was married with two kids. Had also lied about some other big things. He comes across as very socially awkward. After I told him in no uncertain terms to back off and cut off contact he would just be there on the street near my house (nowhere near his house or work) at the time he knew I was going to and from work. I'd also see him in his car on my way out of work several times a week and around my car every time I was at the place mentioned above. It was FAR too coincidental. Then I found a tracker on my car. I also suspect he was in my house. Can't prove it was him but he is the only one who kept showing up. Have tons of emails of email where he admits his behavior was "pestering" and "sneaky". In the end, he stipulated to the order so I wasn't able to provide that documentation to the court.

I still see him at the public place mentioned above. I began noticing that if I'd see him in one area, he is always right on the street as I am leaving (20 - 60 minutes later). The timing to enable him to HAPPEN to be there is not possible without a huge effort on his part. In other words, it is not a coincidence - he is lying in wait. In a correspondence pre RO when I was telling him to back off, he said "I am afraid if you don't see me, you are going to forget about me". He is deliberately making sure I "see" him.

So technically he is not violating the RO but I find this creepy and unnerving. After 4 months of this I have started tracking when this happens (currently it is happening almost every time I am at this place - 3x a week).

I called the Victims Advocate with the DA. She said this was a clear violation and to call the police every time. Really don't want to call the police for a non emergency when the guy will be long gone by the time they get there.

I called the detective on the original case. He say since the location where this is happening isn't listed on the RO he isn't in violation. Further, my Excel spread sheet noting the times / events will do me no good because it is the creepy guy's word against mine.

This guy is continuing the stalking-ike behavior that got him the RO and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do. Not sure who is right, the Victims Advocate or the detective or what I can do. I am continuing to document and to try to get photos as well.
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
Does the RO list ONLY certain places he must stay away from? It should also indicate a distance he must remain from you!

And, yes, I would call the police each time he violates the RO. EACH time! I would also encourage you to get a camera, or have your phone ready to take a picture so you can get additional proof.

But, if it does get down to a prosecution for stalking or an RO violation, the adage that says "if it was not reported, it did not happen" may come into play.

Understand that in California violating a DV related TRO/CPO is the only mandatory arrest statute in the Penal Code. If he is contacted at the scene or near enough to the scene, and there exists probable cause to believe he violated the RO, then he must be taken into custody and booked.
 

Cranford

Junior Member
Does the RO list ONLY certain places he must stay away from? It should also indicate a distance he must remain from you!

And, yes, I would call the police each time he violates the RO. EACH time! I would also encourage you to get a camera, or have your phone ready to take a picture so you can get additional proof.

But, if it does get down to a prosecution for stalking or an RO violation, the adage that says "if it was not reported, it did not happen" may come into play.

Understand that in California violating a DV related TRO/CPO is the only mandatory arrest statute in the Penal Code. If he is contacted at the scene or near enough to the scene, and there exists probable cause to believe he violated the RO, then he must be taken into custody and booked.
The RO states me, my car, home and place of work.

Technically he is not violating - in the first instance we are in a public place. He doesn't stop or engage with me in anyway. Then, 20 - 60 minutes later when he knows I will be leaving (there is one way out and he knows my car), he lurks somewhere and as soon as start to drive away he runs by by car or is a place (still moving) where I have to drive by him.

BUT this is his MO. He used to run through the parking lot where I worked (pre RO) just at the time I arrived every morning. He used to do the same at the gym we both went to. And the grocery store. Post me telling him not to contact me (still pre RO) he'd be on the street on my way to and from work or driving past my office when I left. Post TRO I changed the place I ran and he started going there too. He doesn't need to engage me. He needs me to see him. And he plots that I see him in innocent everyday situations - not in violation of the RO.

I'd feel stupid (and would not want to take them away from a true emergency) calling the police because I drove by him in a place we both technically have the right to be even if he did manipulate the encounter.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
The RO states me, my car, home and place of work.
I thought as much. And ... how far away must he stay from those places, and you.

Technically he is not violating - in the first instance we are in a public place. He doesn't stop or engage with me in anyway. Then, 20 - 60 minutes later when he knows I will be leaving (there is one way out and he knows my car), he lurks somewhere and as soon as start to drive away he runs by by car or is a place (still moving) where I have to drive by him.
Where does he find the time to do all of this? Have you tried ignoring him and not making it obvious you have noticed him?

BUT this is his MO. He used to run through the parking lot where I worked (pre RO) just at the time I arrived every morning. He used to do the same at the gym we both went to. And the grocery store. Post me telling him not to contact me (still pre RO) he'd be on the street on my way to and from work or driving past my office when I left. Post TRO I changed the place I ran and he started going there too. He doesn't need to engage me. He needs me to see him. And he plots that I see him in innocent everyday situations - not in violation of the RO.
If he is within the radius, he is in violation. Yes, he might argue incidental contact, but unless you live in a village of a couple thousand people, we'd call this stalking.

I live in a small town and this activity would result in an arrest simply because even in a small town, the odds of frequent happenstance contacts is tiny.

I'd feel stupid (and would not want to take them away from a true emergency) calling the police because I drove by him in a place we both technically have the right to be even if he did manipulate the encounter.
It's up to you. But, remember, if it is not documented, it didn't happen. Keep taking notes, and take pictures. If ignoring him doesn't work, get pictures of each and every contact to show that this must be more than coincidence. And keep on the detective who is or was working the case.
 

unsure-0083

Junior Member
Restraining Order- CA

Location: California


Got an RO in July against an acquaintance who was infatuated with me. He started getting very clingy and stalkerish. Always turning up at a public place I frequent - pretending it was a coincidence. Repeatedly told him I was uncomfortable. Found out he was married with two kids. Had also lied about some other big things. He comes across as very socially awkward. After I told him in no uncertain terms to back off and cut off contact he would just be there on the street near my house (nowhere near his house or work) at the time he knew I was going to and from work. I'd also see him in his car on my way out of work several times a week and around my car every time I was at the place mentioned above. It was FAR too coincidental. Then I found a tracker on my car. I also suspect he was in my house. Can't prove it was him but he is the only one who kept showing up. Have tons of emails of email where he admits his behavior was "pestering" and "sneaky". In the end, he stipulated to the order so I wasn't able to provide that documentation to the court.

I still see him at the public place mentioned above. I began noticing that if I'd see him in one area, he is always right on the street as I am leaving (20 - 60 minutes later). The timing to enable him to HAPPEN to be there is not possible without a huge effort on his part. In other words, it is not a coincidence - he is lying in wait. In a correspondence pre RO when I was telling him to back off, he said "I am afraid if you don't see me, you are going to forget about me". He is deliberately making sure I "see" him.

So technically he is not violating the RO but I find this creepy and unnerving. After 4 months of this I have started tracking when this happens (currently it is happening almost every time I am at this place - 3x a week).

I called the Victims Advocate with the DA. She said this was a clear violation and to call the police every time. Really don't want to call the police for a non emergency when the guy will be long gone by the time they get there.

I called the detective on the original case. He say since the location where this is happening isn't listed on the RO he isn't in violation. Further, my Excel spread sheet noting the times / events will do me no good because it is the creepy guy's word against mine.

This guy is continuing the stalking-ike behavior that got him the RO and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do. Not sure who is right, the Victims Advocate or the detective or what I can do. I am continuing to document and to try to get photos as well.

First of all- Make sure you understand all the Terms of the Restraining Order..Secondly- You mentioned a "Tracker"? Most people unless they are a trained Private eye or Law Official don't have access to these devices. Even if they did - you have to be a professional to install and then have the equipment to Track the vehicle etc****************************That happened to my sister. She was Tracked but it was by a Investigator not a lay person. These devices must be set and you need the technical equipment to keep accurate data on location etc....It can be quite detailed and difficult. If you were Tracked it must be by a professional.

As far as Public places like a Food Store or Gym etc: As long as the person is not purposely attempting to annoy or garnish your attention while at the Gym or Grocery store- it is not a Violation . Everyone has a right to go to a Public place. I find it odd that this person is at all these places 3x a week- every time you are there. However- if you purposely try to aggravate or upset the person while at these public places- that is a different story.

It is not clear what you are seeking here? You want to know about the Public places where you run into this person?? I agree with the poster that asked How would this person have the time to do all these things? Is the person a Detective or Investigator? You can have an investigator on your trail for quite a while and never even know it. This post is a bit sketchy and I feel there may much more you are not telling us here?
 

Cranford

Junior Member
I thought as much. And ... how far away must he stay from those places, and you.


Where does he find the time to do all of this? Have you tried ignoring him and not making it obvious you have noticed him?

If he is within the radius, he is in violation. Yes, he might argue incidental contact, but unless you live in a village of a couple thousand people, we'd call this stalking.

I live in a small town and this activity would result in an arrest simply because even in a small town, the odds of frequent happenstance contacts is tiny.


It's up to you. But, remember, if it is not documented, it didn't happen. Keep taking notes, and take pictures. If ignoring him doesn't work, get pictures of each and every contact to show that this must be more than coincidence. And keep on the detective who is or was working the case.
The RO is for 100 yards.

He has time because he has a flexible job. I don't acknowledge him. He is in the radius but moving. The first instance wouldn't be a big deal. It is the second encounter that is the issue. That is deliberate.

I'm in a large city. There is no way this is coincidence. The second encounter is such that there is only 20 - 30 seconds where I would see him. Somehow he times this 20 - 60 minutes after the first encounter. Again, this is the same behavior he exhibited before the RO. The detective spoke to his lawyer at one point and even the lawyer said the guy just doesn't get it.

OK thank you. I'm sure the local police are not going to like it but I don't seen to have a choice.
 
Last edited:

Shadowbunny

Queen of the Not-Rights
I'm not as convinced as "unsure" * that a GPS tracker couldn't have been installed by this guy. There are too many battery-powered, magnetic GPS trackers out there (and the youtube videos on how to install them) for me to think it's not possible.

If you google "How to Find a Hidden GPS Tracker on Your Car" you'll find some good advice on how to search for one.

*Ironic username, given the inaccurate advice he/she gave.

ETA: I mistakenly attributed unsure's post with OG. My apologies to OG.
 
Last edited:

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
First of all- Make sure you understand all the Terms of the Restraining Order..Secondly- You mentioned a "Tracker"? Most people unless they are a trained Private eye or Law Official don't have access to these devices. Even if they did - you have to be a professional to install and then have the equipment to Track the vehicle etc****************************That happened to my sister. She was Tracked but it was by a Investigator not a lay person. These devices must be set and you need the technical equipment to keep accurate data on location etc....It can be quite detailed and difficult. If you were Tracked it must be by a professional.

As far as Public places like a Food Store or Gym etc: As long as the person is not purposely attempting to annoy or garnish your attention while at the Gym or Grocery store- it is not a Violation . Everyone has a right to go to a Public place. I find it odd that this person is at all these places 3x a week- every time you are there. However- if you purposely try to aggravate or upset the person while at these public places- that is a different story.

It is not clear what you are seeking here? You want to know about the Public places where you run into this person?? I agree with the poster that asked How would this person have the time to do all these things? Is the person a Detective or Investigator? You can have an investigator on your trail for quite a while and never even know it. This post is a bit sketchy and I feel there may much more you are not telling us here?
There is so much wrong with this post, I don't know where to start.

1) Just because you, unsure, are an idiot about such things, does not mean that other lay people can't figure it out. I would expect most adult members of my family to be fully capable of figuring out how to use a tracker, although they really have no interest in such things. The retired rocket scientist would have no problem with it.

2) It is pretty clear what the OP wants: OP wants to not be stalked.

3) Actually, your understanding of ROs is incorrect. Yes, the parties are supposed to avoid each other in public spaces, unless there's some exception written into the order. When OP encounters her stalker in a public place - she's supposed to avoid him, he is supposed to avoid her. He in not trying to avoid her: he is stalking her.

Then again, maybe there is a reason you're having the problems you have at work. You just don't get it.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
I'm not as convinced as OG that a GPS tracker couldn't have been installed by this guy. There are too many battery-powered, magnetic GPS trackers out there (and the youtube videos on how to install them) for me to think it's not possible.

If you google "How to Find a Hidden GPS Tracker on Your Car" you'll find some good advice on how to search for one.
It wasn't OG. It was some new person.
 

Cranford

Junior Member
First of all- Make sure you understand all the Terms of the Restraining Order..Secondly- You mentioned a "Tracker"? Most people unless they are a trained Private eye or Law Official don't have access to these devices. Even if they did - you have to be a professional to install and then have the equipment to Track the vehicle etc****************************That happened to my sister. She was Tracked but it was by a Investigator not a lay person. These devices must be set and you need the technical equipment to keep accurate data on location etc....It can be quite detailed and difficult. If you were Tracked it must be by a professional.

As far as Public places like a Food Store or Gym etc: As long as the person is not purposely attempting to annoy or garnish your attention while at the Gym or Grocery store- it is not a Violation . Everyone has a right to go to a Public place. I find it odd that this person is at all these places 3x a week- every time you are there. However- if you purposely try to aggravate or upset the person while at these public places- that is a different story.

It is not clear what you are seeking here? You want to know about the Public places where you run into this person?? I agree with the poster that asked How would this person have the time to do all these things? Is the person a Detective or Investigator? You can have an investigator on your trail for quite a while and never even know it. This post is a bit sketchy and I feel there may much more you are not telling us here?
You are incorrect. Passive trackers are magnetic and the can be attached to the undercarriage of a car which is where I found one. Check out Landairsea passive tracker. That gave him information of where I go and when I am there. Patterns of behavior.

Clearly I am seeking him to follow if not the letter, the intent of RO which is not to follow me. He is socially awkward, has an infatuation with me, has a pattern of just being where I am - running through the parking lot of my former office when I'd arrive in the morning, walking by the back door of the gym as I was going to my car after a workout, walking along the road along the exit of my neighborhood in the morning (he doesn't live or work near me), on the road as I left my current office, after the TRO on the trails where I run (I had never seen him there prior), around my car at another place I run (as I finished my run). Once I turned around in a grocery store and he was there.

It is not a PI, it is him. I think the whole think is "sketchy" on its own which is why I am posting.
 

quincy

Senior Member
You are incorrect. Passive trackers are magnetic and the can be attached to the undercarriage of a car which is where I found one. Check out Landairsea passive tracker. That gave him information of where I go and when I am there. Patterns of behavior.

Clearly I am seeking him to follow if not the letter, the intent of RO which is not to follow me. He is socially awkward, has an infatuation with me, has a pattern of just being where I am - running through the parking lot of my former office when I'd arrive in the morning, walking by the back door of the gym as I was going to my car after a workout, walking along the road along the exit of my neighborhood in the morning (he doesn't live or work near me), on the road as I left my current office, after the TRO on the trails where I run (I had never seen him there prior), around my car at another place I run (as I finished my run). Once I turned around in a grocery store and he was there.

It is not a PI, it is him. I think the whole think is "sketchy" on its own which is why I am posting.
Please ignore the post by unsure-0083. What was posted by him/her was incorrect.

CdwJava provided you with good accurate information. What you need to do is report to the police each and every violation of the order.
 

quincy

Senior Member
At least it is only "Today's Posts" and the drug charges forum that are being affected by the spammers. It could be worse. :)
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top