Historical emblems, legal use in publications?

[FRK3]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? FL

Hello,

I am working with someone that is preparing to publish a book which will include a few pictorials of emblems and symbols of the Roman Empire. It will tie those symbols to modern Seals, monuments and Flags etceteras.

Seems to be a silly question, but since the 'original author' of the Roman Emblems are from 2000+ years ago, how would I actually obtain an authorization to allow this to be used? Could this be considered usable under fair use?

On most of the more 'modern' works, such as the US Senate seal, I am already in the process of requesting approvals.

I am having difficulty determining the best way to seek authorization from foreign entities, such as Ecuador, to use their Seals. Any suggestions?

Thank you for any assistance or advice.
FrankWhat is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? FL

Hello,

I am working with someone that is preparing to publish a book which will include a few pictorials of emblems and symbols of the Roman Empire. It will tie those symbols to modern Seals, monuments and Flags etceteras.

Seems to be a silly question, but since the 'original author' of the Roman Emblems are from 2000+ years ago, how would I actually obtain an authorization to allow this to be used? Could this be considered usable under fair use?

On most of the more 'modern' works, such as the US Senate seal, I am already in the process of requesting approvals.

I am having difficulty determining the best way to seek authorization from foreign entities, such as Ecuador, to use their Seals. Any suggestions?

Thank you for any assistance or advice.
FrankWhat is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

This is not meant to be a complete answer, by any means, because I am not the expert here -- Quincy is, and I imagine he'll be by in a bit.

However, I wanted to point out to you that the actual drawings/photos of the ancient seals are likely also copyrighted.

 

[quincy]

FRK3, I don't have much time for a complete answer to your questions right now, either, and I will post more when I can. However in the meantime, you may wish to check out Bridgeman Art Library, Ltd v Corel Corp., 36 F.Supp 2d 191 (SDNY 1999). This expands on Silverplum's comment about the copyrights that may exist in the photographs and drawings of historical emblems, seals and symbols that you may be considering for use in the book.

From Bridgeman: "...exact photographic copies of public domain works of art would not be copyrightable under United States law because they are not original." However, from "Nimmer on Copyright" (1998), the Nimmers said that "a very modest expression of personality will constitute sufficient originality" to afford copyright protection.

I will post back with information on who you will need to obtain permission from in order to use photographs and drawings in the book, and how to do this. You may have to contact and get access and permission from the museums, universities, libraries, historical societies, galleries and governments that hold the works to be pictured, as well as obtain written permission from the owners of the works and holders of the copyrights. More later.

As a note: divgradcurl is the real expert, but he doesn't seem to get to the forum very often anymore. I still expect him (or anyone else, for that matter) to jump in if I am too off-base with any of my answers.

 

[FRK3]

Thank you very much for your replies.

quincy,

When reviewing some of the material you have suggested, something comes to mind - and I hope I'm not over simplifying it in an attempt to better understand.
Since one of the items to be presented in the book (a Fasces) is inscribed on national monuments (like the Lincoln Memorial), would commissioning our own photographer and/or purchasing a stock photo of the publicly displayed item be adequate protection?

I will note that the images are to be used for nothing more substantive than a pictorial reference and comparison.

I look forward to the followup to your previous post.

Thank you,
Frank

 

[quincy]

The answer to your latest question, Frank, is yes. Public domain materials are free to use for any purpose by anyone. Taking a photo yourself or commissioning a photographer to take photos (with a written agreement with the photographer to ensure you have secured the proper rights to the photos) would avoid the copyright issues you may otherwise face.

A problem can come with gaining access to public domain works held by private entities, getting permission to photograph the works held, and then getting permission to publish the photographs from whomever may own or hold any rights in the work.

Photographs already in existence of public domain material may require that you get a license from the photographer to use them, to avoid the risk of any copyright challenge. For many educational or academic uses, a photographer or an entity may grant a "courtesy" use of existing photos of public domain works that are in their possession and/or under their control, in exchange for a promise from you to attribute the source in your publication (which should be done anyway).

Commercial coffee-table style "picture" books of works in the public domain would be much more problematic without gaining permission from the holder of the works or rights than would be, say, a text on the history of Egypt, where the photos are secondary to the text and are for illustrative purposes only. These sorts of texts will often meet the elements looked at by a U.S. court in copyright cases as "fair use" (although a court determination of fair use comes after a court challenge of the use, so it is always better to get permission than to rely on fair use).

Complications can arise because, although much of what is viewed in, say, a museum is now in the public domain, museums get revenue from the sale of photographs of the works they hold (often in the form of photograph-postcards or books). This amounts to a good deal of money for the museum and they are naturally very protective of their rights to control photographer-access to what they have on display.

If you cannot travel to Rome or Ecuador or even another U.S. state to photograph material personally, there are generally museum, gallery, historical society, etc., websites (both national and international) set up with contact information. There is often copyright ownership information and instructions on acquisition of photographs, how to access material, how to obtain permission to use material, how to attribute, how to license.

Some important notes:
First, copyright laws in countries around the world vary, sometimes in significant ways, and these differences in the law must be taken into consideration.
Second, a review should be made of the book prior to publication, by someone well-versed in IP or publishing law. The review is to address and to eliminate as much as possible any areas of legal concern.
Also strongly advised (and required by many publishing houses) is insurance enough to cover the costs of any lawsuit that may arise from the publication, despite your best efforts to avoid one.

Good luck.

 

[FRK3]

quincy,

Thank you for your thorough response and advise.

Many of the items are on display somewhere to the public, not necessarily in a gallery or museum. Getting a photographer for each may be the best solution, or locating a stock photo with authorization. For those that are not, I will look further online to contact their owners.

I have received permission from one US State to use their Seal. Interesting enough, the flag is public domain and free use, but the Seal required permission.

I will advise the author to purchase legal insurance prior to publishing if they haven't already done so. This sounds like a safe measure to have in place.

Thank you very much for all of your help!
Frank

 

[quincy]

You're welcome. The book sounds like an interesting one. Good luck.