Ebay contract sale dispute, venue help.

[JSAautomotive]

Hello there. I purchased an 87 Buick Grand National off a fellow from O'Fallon, Missouri here in Los Angeles, Ca on Ebay. The care was damaged in the transporting because of a prior body repair that was never fixed correctly. This caused the damage. Along with the seller completely misrepresenting the car according to the listing.

I formally asked him to re-imburse me a certain amount to bring the car back to how he had it listed as. No response now for over 3 weeks.

I have all the info to file on him, and already attempted to do so with the Los Angeles small claims court system. The request came back saying that you cannot sue someone out of state.

Now isn't Ebay considered an "online auction house", and the descriptions and term/conditions considered a contract, so therefore allowing people to do interstate commerce in an auction house style business manner??

On my filing papers it states, "Why are you filing your claim at this courthouse", and I checked the box that said, "a.) Where a contract (written or spoken) was made, signed, performed, or broken by the defendant OR where the defendant lived when the defendant made the contract."

So my claim to venue is of the 1st portion of A). Do I have standing in my venue??

Thanks in advance to anyones help.

Thanks... John

 

[BelizeBreeze]

You need to file in Missouri where the transaction took place.

 

[JSAautomotive]

Respectfully BelizeBreeze, and please don't take this the wrong way, I'm certainly not an attorney, but just trying to learn something. You haven't given me a good reason as to "why" I need to file is his state??

It clearly states on the small claims documents that if the written contract was made, performed, or broken by the defendant in my state, that my state would be the proper venue.

There was a contract, terms of conditions, a bill of sale, and the bill of sale also had a clause that said, "car is being sold as is, no warranty. But is sold as represented on ebay as item #4557754949. Item description is attached to this bill of sale."

You can see the listing at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4557754949&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT
Look at where he specifically states the car was never in a major accident. I have documentation from the body shop that had to fix the prior repair that states it WAS a major accident. So therefore these is clear cut fraud involved.

Furthermore.... Ebay is a company. Having sued other companies in the past, they must have an agent for service in any state in which they do business in. Since Ebay is the auction house and is in California with an agent for service, should I re-file the claim naming Ebay and the seller of the car??

I sued a company a couple of years ago that sold me defective video surveillance cameras over the internet, and the rules I just listed applied because they were a business entity and that there were laws governing interstate commerce.

Thanks in advance for your help. Sincerely, John.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Respectfully BelizeBreeze, and please don't take this the wrong way, I'm certainly not an attorney, but just trying to learn something. You haven't given me a good reason as to "why" I need to file is his state??
.

If you would like to read my reply again you'll find the answer.

 

[JSAautomotive]

Thank you.

Thanks Belize...

But I was looking for a more comprehensive answer. Something like clauses from the business and professions codes, case law regarding the matter, etc. Not just "you have to file in Mo." Thanks for your help anyway.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Thanks Belize...

But I was looking for a more comprehensive answer. Something like clauses from the business and professions codes, case law regarding the matter, etc. Not just "you have to file in Mo." Thanks for your help anyway.

Then hire an attorney. This site is not intended to supplement law school.

 

[dallas702]

You're not filing suit against Ebay, and since they don't claim to act as an agent for any of their sellers/buyers the jurisdiction you might normally get isn't via Ebay's status.

I have the same problem right now, and from what I've read it is best to file in the state of the seller. Apparently, even if you are allowed to file in your home state, the seller can file a refusal based on jurisdiction. That would just prolong your potential recovery. If the amount is within small claims limits you might be able to get someone other than a liscenced attny. to file and represent you in court. If the amount is more, much of your damages might be consumed in fees. It's a rock and a hard place that seems to favor scammers and liars who sell crap for gold prices.

 

[JSAautomotive]

Hey Dallas... I really appreciate the comprehensive response. I think I'll still try to force the lawsuit though here in California. I already have someone set up to serve him in Missouri that has been keeping an eye on him. I don't think this fellow is too "legal" savy. And if he doesn't contest venue, I'll get a judgement, then a debtors hearing, and hopefully a warrant for the jerk. Another question if I may though.... do you know if I decieded to contest him in Missouri, if I can add on the expenses (i.e. airfare, car rental, hotel if ness) to the amount I'm demanding he pay as costs??

Thanks again sooo much for your help.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Apparently, even if you are allowed to file in your home state, the seller can file a refusal based on jurisdiction. .

Just one point. It's not Best to file, it's where jurisdiction lies. It's where the transaction took place. california has no jurisdiction period.

which is what I told this person in the very first response. There is no other fact he needs to know except his little game will result in his case being tossed in California.

 

[JETX]

Alright... lets try to resolve this one....

1) You can sue the other party anywhere you want. However, the other party (or the court) has the right to challenge your selection of venue. It sounds like the court has already decided that their court does NOT have jurisdiction over a defendant located in another state. Of course, you can challenge this opinion.... but you better have an attorney do it for you.
2) Lets assume that the court accepts your filing. In order to even start to protect your notice of the suit, you will have to serve the defendant in a method that is proper in BOTH states.... otherwise the defendant can claim improper service.
3) So, lets now assume you managed to provide proper service. The defendants answer (if they provide one) will likely be to challenge your choice of California courts. Depending on the EXACT facts, it is likely that the court would agree.
4) However, lets assume the defendant doesn't challenge... and the court 'ignores' the issue. You MIGHT get a default judgment against the seller. The next problem you face is how to enforce the judgment. Your California judgment can't touch him since he is out of their 'reach' in Missouri. So, what do you do?? You have to file your lawsuit again in Missouri (in what is called a 'domestication' lawsuit).

And no, you can't add the costs of travel, etc. to your suit.

Are you beginning to see some of the problems you are facing???

 

[JSAautomotive]

Jetx!!!

Thank you SOOOO much for that!!! That is exactly the answer I was looking for. Both you and Dallas seem to be very nice and helpfull people. Also, Belize.... don't take offense to me asking for more clarification. I knew someone would eventually. But thank you for your input. I do appreciate it.

I had thought about the collections part of it. But wasn't sure how that would play out.

I guess I just don't understand how someone could consider "the place the transaction or contract took place as being Missouri, when I live here". Technically, if anything, it's a 50/50 deal. But I guess I'll stand on the basis that I am here, I made the offer to purchase here, and I bought the car here where the car was delivered and thus the contract broken once I recieved/saw the car.

If anything, the lawsuit will shake this guy up. He'll see that I'm serious. Maybe he'll play ball with me afterwards.

The suit was refused trying to file on line without the court knowing all the facts of the case. The online application does not give you the luxury to fill in extra information regarding the specifics. Thus, the refusal of application.

Thanks again all who helped me. I really do appreciate it. And please don't hesitate to call me if you ever have car problems. I'm a facility owner and a part time instructor too.

thanks... John

 

[dlinne2150]

Just because I went through a similar experience. Did you contact ebays auction insurance to file a claim for misrepresentation? Also, as belizebreeze advised me in my case, the first step would probably be to send the seller a RRR letter stating what was wrong with the vehicle and what legal remedies you intend to pursue. In my case that was all it took to bring the seller around. Good Luck!

 

[Mark Bennett]

Trouble with ebay

I too had had trouble with ebay and am presently having trouble.
Two points I would like to make are:

1) Ebay uses the telecommunications infrastructure of the USA to conduct its business. Most of this business is across state lines. Does that not allow suits to be filed in federal court? Interstate commerce clause etc?

2) Ebay makes a big deal about its "Safe Harbor" buyer protection program, however it is a fraud. Ebay has always sided with the crooked "power sellers" regarding my complaints with these corrupt sellers. I call them corrupt because they breach the "contract" which allegedly exists between the seller and the buyer, by not sending the item listed on the auction page. Ebay's position is that if ANYTHING at all is sent, the the seller has complied. If I bought a Rolex watch but a power seller sent me a empty soda can, as far as ebay is concerned, the seller is not in breach and will not be punished by ebay.

I believe a case could be made that ebay is engaging in wire fraud and unfair trade practices by touting how safe ebay transactions are and how ebay will protect buyers when if fact that is not the case.

Anybody interested in a multi-billion dollar class action lawsuit?

BTW, have you heard ebay's radio commercials that state "No matter what is is, you will find it on ebay." Well, that is patently untrue. One cannot find firearms, narcotics, fireworks, human body parts, switchblades, N A Z I paraphernalia as well a a huge list of other items that ebay prohibits. It sounds like a clear case of deceptive advertising to me.

 

[Zigner]

Why did you resurrect this long-dead thread?!?

 

[Mark Bennett]

ebay trouble

Think about it.