Unborn Child

[casa]

I think i'm confused ... as it is often stated that "there is no child in question" until said child is born. Said child does not exist until birth! So how can a court issue an order for someone who does not exist. What if god forbid something horrible were to happen and said shild never comes to exist???

It is often stated on this website that a father is not a father until he takes a paternity test and that cannot be done until a baby is born. How is it that in this case someone can say that there is a child (and presumably this man's child) .... he doesn't even know yet!! .... and a judge can issue an order at the request of this "man" who is not yet a father????


Sorry ... I know I'm not helpful ... but I was jsut looking for some clarification..

If "something horrible" happened~ Mom would appear in court to testify to that.

Meanwhile, there is a Court Order to follow. If OPs daughter does not like it, she needs to follow the proper legal channels.

 

[Golfball]

This is for my edification, but if the order was issued after the presumed mother left CA (rather than before, as is the case here), could the court order her back?

Obviously the court would have jurisdiction over the person of the mother if the mother was either served within the borders of the state, or was demonstrably within the borders of the state at the time of the order, she'd meet the minimum contacts test in either of those cases.

But how would a departure from the state (prior to any order, and in absence of other factors allowing CA to assert long-arm jurisdiction) be handled?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I looked at both of the forms that emme posted. Now, maybe I'm confused, but a child does NOT exist YET, because there hasn't been a birth.

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/fl210.pdf
The exact verbage:

STANDARD RESTRAINING ORDER
You and the other party are restrained from removing from the state the minor child or children for whom this action seeks to establish a parent-child relationship without the prior written consent of the other party or an order of the court.

There is no CHILD at this time; there is a fetus, probably viable. I need a California guru to help here.

 

[StampGirl]

This is for my edification, but if the order was issued after the presumed mother left CA (rather than before, as is the case here), could the court order her back?

Obviously the court would have jurisdiction over the person of the mother if the mother was either served within the borders of the state, or was demonstrably within the borders of the state at the time of the order, she'd meet the minimum contacts test in either of those cases.

But how would a departure from the state (prior to any order, and in absence of other factors allowing CA to assert long-arm jurisdiction) be handled?

Mother was served in CA. The presumed father filed for custody/visitation/child support (I believe) in CA BEFORE she moved. She was also served before she moved. Mom then consulted a family friend (attorney in San Fran according to this OP) who said she could move, then she moved to Oregon.

The Mother needs to get to CA by the date on her court-ordered papers. Pronto.

Correct me if I am wrong but the crucial fact here is that the papers were filed and she was served BEFORE she left California. That is why she is in violation of the court order and was ordered back to California.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Courtclerk: yes my son in laws uncle is a family attorney in San Fran he looked at all the paper work that was filed and told her see was still able to move there was nothing stooping her.

As for the rest of the stuff the move was planed long before the pregnancy, did they live together no they did not.
Is he a loser yes big time am i happy with her choices no not at all.
She is under doctors orders no to travel and all paper work has been submitted to the court here in Sacramento.
Did she drink alot and do drugs no she did not but he has said she did. and one of his wittiness who lived with my daughter was sleeping with him after the pregnancy and her cousin who shared the same house with her and the wittiness is conterdicting every thing she has said.

So you all want to bash her some more go ahead but now you have more info to go on.
She was just asking for some advice there no reason to beat up on her.

Ok! I need starbucks in order to find how this girl was bashed.

 

[casa]

This is for my edification, but if the order was issued after the presumed mother left CA (rather than before, as is the case here), could the court order her back?

Obviously the court would have jurisdiction over the person of the mother if the mother was either served within the borders of the state, or was demonstrably within the borders of the state at the time of the order, she'd meet the minimum contacts test in either of those cases.

But how would a departure from the state (prior to any order, and in absence of other factors allowing CA to assert long-arm jurisdiction) be handled?

No, Dad filed a Presumptive Father packet...there was a hearing & an Order issued. The Order contained the standard Restraint (of anyone leaving or failing to return to Court/Jurisdiction).

Mom then fled the state. NOW she is in OR and saying she can't travel due to pregnancy.

 

[casa]

Mother was served in CA. The presumed father filed for custody/visitation/child support (I believe) in CA BEFORE she moved. She was also served before she moved. Mom then consulted a family friend (attorney in San Fran according to this OP) who said she could move, then she moved to Oregon.

The Mother needs to get to CA by the date on her court-ordered papers. Pronto.

Correct me if I am wrong but the crucial fact here is that the papers were filed and she was served BEFORE she left California. That is why she is in violation of the court order and was ordered back to California.

You are exactly Right StampGirl. If Mom wanted to move, she could have petitioned the court for such...and been directed how to proceed from there.

And, I STILL Do Not Believe for ONE SECOND that an actual Attorney advised this woman that it was OK to defy a Court Order. I suspect she did not give the attorney ALL the facts. (like the fact that there was a current Court Order)

 

[Zigner]

Mother should hire a California attorney to represent her in court to attempt to have the original order set aside. I think the (alleged) father snuck this one by someone...

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

I looked at both of the forms that emme posted. Now, maybe I'm confused, but a child does NOT exist YET, because there hasn't been a birth.

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/fl210.pdf
The exact verbage:


There is no CHILD at this time; there is a fetus, probably viable. I need a California guru to help here.

This is simple. Ca does not have jurisdiction for a couple of reasons.
1. They are not married.
2. The child is not born.
3.She can move to China if she wanted.
4.Where the baby is born and the mom has become a resident, leaving Cali out of it.

There is more to this story if she claims she was ordered not to move.

This is a unborn Child with a guy that needs to take a PT, in order to find out if he is Daddy.

Not buying the fact that Cali gave an order to this girl not to move.

I'm not a guru, but that is my take on it.

 

[casa]

Mother should hire a California attorney to represent her in court to attempt to have the original order set aside. I think the (alleged) father snuck this one by someone...

I agree she should hire an attorney in CA...especially if she plans on not attending her upcoming hearing.

However, the father didn't 'sneak' this by anyone. He filed as the Presumptive Father. Period. And he used the Court to legally prevent her from doing exactly what she did...Fleeing out of state/jurisdiction in order to try to thwart his ability to establish Paternity.

These cases are argued ALL THE TIME in CA. Just ask LdiJ. Even though we tend to be on different sides of this particular argument.

And what I LOVE about CA? It really, really REALLY does not like to cede Jurisdiction...especially when someone is actively defying a Court Order.

 

[ezmarelda]

Mother should hire a California attorney to represent her in court to attempt to have the original order set aside. I think the (alleged) father snuck this one by someone...

No sneeking would be needed...here in the Vortex a man who believes he is the father to an unborn child can file to establish paternity, custody/visatation and cs...before the child is born.
There is a standard restraining order that is part of most any Ca Family Court filing
Both parties have to stay put 'till Judgie decides otherwise



ETA~ casa you rock, you always say things better than do I

 

[StampGirl]

Mother should hire a California attorney to represent her in court to attempt to have the original order set aside. I think the (alleged) father snuck this one by someone...

I am sorry Zigner but like Casa said, the father filed a Presumed Father packet, had his hearing, served her, she fled the state, and it appears he then filed something to show she violated the court order by moving to Oregon. Thus she is where she is today: Hot water unless she gets herself back to CA by the date on the court order.

If she wanted to live in Oregon she should have moved BEFORE the father filed the case. Now she has to come back.

OP: The father may not be so dumb as you seem to think he is.

 

[casa]

This is simple. Ca does not have jurisdiction for a couple of reasons.
1. They are not married.
2. The child is not born.
3.She can move to China if she wanted.
4.Where the baby is born and the mom has become a resident, leaving Cali out of it.

There is more to this story if she claims she was ordered not to move.

This is a unborn Child with a guy that needs to take a PT, in order to find out if he is Daddy.

Not buying the fact that Cali gave an order to this girl not to move.

I'm not a guru, but that is my take on it.

*sigh*

1. Not being married is WHY the Dad had to file as Presumptive Father pending the birth.
2. No, it's not. And THAT is why she was ordered to remain in CA pending the Court's determination(s). So she wouldn't FLEE and avoid Establishment of Paternity & prevent the father from establishing his Parental Rights.
3. She can't move to China if she has an ongoing case in Court...unless she wants to fly back to the US for every single hearing so she's not in Contempt.
4. If CA issued an Order ~ then it already HAS Jurisdiction. Sure, the Mom can fight that ~ as soon as she hires an attorney &/or appears at her hearing(s).

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

What I can't wrap my brain around is the verbage:
It restrains the parents from removing the CHILD. Technically, a child does not exist, therefore, no violation in my little pea brain. Now, if the restraining order was for MOM, then, absolutely.

I can see where California has jurisdiction AFTER the birth, so I'm not arguing there. Just the restraining order.

 

[StampGirl]

*sigh*

1. Not being married is WHY the Dad had to file as Presumptive Father pending the birth.
2. No, it's not. And THAT is why she was ordered to remain in CA pending the Court's determination(s). So she wouldn't FLEE and avoid Establishment of Paternity & prevent the father from establishing his Parental Rights.
3. She can't move to China if she has an ongoing case in Court...unless she wants to fly back to the US for every single hearing so she's not in Contempt.
4. If CA issued an Order ~ then it already HAS Jurisdiction. Sure, the Mom can fight that ~ as soon as she hires an attorney &/or appears at her hearing(s).

Deep breath Casa!!!

What the OP's daughter needs to understand is that the man she chose to be the daddy of her child (born or unborn) acted in HIS best interest. That boy got some AWESOME legal advice and/or did some incredible research.

Bottom line is that in the state of CA a father can file the type of lawsuit he filed if he believes he is the father of the unborn child. He did so well within his rights. He served her and a court hearing was held. She then made the decision to LEAVE the state illegally when she SHOULD have petitioned the court to move to Oregon. The father being the smart man he is, filed contempt papers because she left. NOW she is big time trouble if she or an attorney she hires, does not show up in court in CALIFORNIA by the "due date".