Mothers Day Holiday, Mom out of town.

[Humusluvr]

I'll be back posting in Sept when our 14 1/2 year old tells his mom, as he's planning, that he doesn't want to live with her and her husband anymore and is moving to Dad's......

It truly SUCKS to be right about most of the things that have been happening in this aftermath, but doing the right thing is not always so cut and dried, have I made my point?

Yes, if nothing else, this has been an 'entertaining' 3 years. Over 3 1/2 since Dec 23rd of 2004 actually.

Thanks all so far,

bd

If you have been reading for so long, I would think you would know that every senior LOL'd when they read that statement..... are you for real?

or, in your lingo - are u 4 really, bro????

 

[Ohiogal]

Doing something nice for the children is the obvious positive in this scenario, however I've got a few extra factors I've had to consider for the past 3 years when the nice is on my time: 1) Their mom won't give the time back

Great. So you are both being immature morons. You suit one another.

2) This nice time is with the grandparent that abused the mother as a child, alledgedly by the mother herself, which I am stedfastly against since the outset.

What PROOF do you have?

I did ask for a certified psychic evaluation of the step-grandfather to see if he was fit to care for my daughter, but both he and the kid's mom REFUSED this request, which I have documented in versions of the divorce settlement. That would have cleared up A LOT of issues, so why not do it? Maybe the answer is bc he is NOT FIT and they know it???

Or maybe because Stepgrandfather is NOT a party to the divorce. Nor is anyone but you and mom. Why should he submit himself to ANYTHING your divorce decree states? You have no clue legally.

OhioGal, I expected some responses like this, it's hard to present the entire backdrop of 3 years in one post, thanks for not giving me the benefit of the doubt however, class act.

Why give you the benefit of the doubt? prove you deserve it.

IsabellaSoriano, the reference to 420 never gets old, turn the page bro, it's just a numba.

Okay G. You gonna be a gent someday so you can hang with diddy?

penelope10, I don't mind the Gp's, as long as I know the GF is 'safe', which I don't.

YOu have no right for that proof. NONE.

It's way beyond doing the right thing, the mom just does not co-operate in return. I spose I should just give her the Full custody that she wants but doesn't want to go to court and get as well? I mean, that'd be pretty grown up, wouldn't it?

Neither one of you appear to be acting like adults.

I'll be back posting in Sept when our 14 1/2 year old tells his mom, as he's planning, that he doesn't want to live with her and her husband anymore and is moving to Dad's. The same husband that she had in the presence of the kids 3 WEEKS into the divorce proceedings/separation. The same situation that I asked her, in one of the divorce settlements, if she'd pay for 100% (as opposed to the 1/3) of any counseling that either child may incur due to her new beau being brought into the picture 5 1/4 MONTHS EARLIER than MOST Child Psychs would have suggested. She REFUSED. My son HATES HIM. He says he was brought into his life TOO EARLY. He WASN'T READY.

Your son has NO right to choice. He can't move in with you just because he wants to.

It truly SUCKS to be right about most of the things that have been happening in this aftermath, but doing the right thing is not always so cut and dried, have I made my point?

No but you have proved that you are pointless.

 

[penelope10]

OP you yourself have presented Mom as being manipulative. I find it rather curious that you tend to put some weight on her allegations in regards to the existence of past bad behaviors of one of these grandparents.(Given the history you have presented) I'm not a GP, but I can tell you that if my child's ex demanded that I have a psych evaluation in order to spend some extended time with the grandchildren , I'd have had a real hard time being courteous to that person after the fact.. On what grounds? On the grounds of allegations of someone that you yourself are portraying as a flake? If I were a GP, I'd frankly be very insulted. It says a lot about the character of these folks that they communicate with you at all. Obviously they must really want to have a relationship with their grandchildren to put up with this crap. (Cause they are getting it probably from both their own child and from you).

What concrete evidence do you have, besides what Mom has professed to, that proves that the grandparents are a danger to these children? Legally you don't have to give them any of your time. But if these people can manage to be nice to you, and love the kids, they may be fairly decent people. I'd try to facilitate the relationship rather than hinder it. Not because it had particular value to me, but because it could have value to my children.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Who has custody of the children? Where do they live primarily?

 

[Isis1]

Who has custody of the children? Where do they live primarily?

his previous postings say joint physical and joint legal.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I'm looking for time frames here. If mom has the children more than dad, and it's HER parents, why not on HER time then.

I ended up dropping the kids off at the children's Grandmothers house at the usual weekly dropoff time, which is Sundays at 5 PM.

I'll be back posting in Sept when our 14 1/2 year old tells his mom, as he's planning, that he doesn't want to live with her and her husband anymore and is moving to Dad's.

Is dad getting EOW? If so, then yes, unless there is a trade of weekends, then yes, I wouldn't trade either.

 

[bd420]

OhioGal, I'm afraid you don't read real well

I've either addressed most of what you said already, you haven't read what I wrote very well, you are making some really bad assumptions, I know all my legal rights.

The GF would have said yes to the PE if he wanted to ever see my daughter on my time. That would be the WHY part.

 

[Ohiogal]

I've either addressed most of what you said already, you haven't read what I wrote very well, you are making some really bad assumptions, I know all my legal rights.

The GF would have said yes to the PE if he wanted to ever see my daughter on my time. That would be the WHY part.

NO you do NOT comprehend real well. Lets just start there shall we. LEGALLY he has no reason to submit to your wishes. You being an ass is not a legal reason.

ETA: And let me just clarify in case you do not GET it. When you have a child you have a choice of being a control happy freak who wants things their way just because they can or stepping aside and putting the CHILD/REN first so that they child/ren can learn to have relationships with all of their extended family. You are portraying yourself as being in the FIRST group.

 

[bd420]

allegations

penelope10

Yes, you are right, very manipulative. What's curious about putting grounds on what your ex-wife at one time confided in you, at a time when you did believe her? At one time, I believe her 100%. I hated the GF for what he did.

She was removed from the house bc of this abuse. Her father removed her. He is an ex Army Ranger. He saw the bruises, he told me this.

But still, you are right, it's her word only. She could have made the bruises self inflicted to get out, she could have made the dents in the wall as well. She could have snowballed her father into beleiving it was real, and then in turn snowballed me.

You are right.

But I don't know the truth. If you don't know if your daughter's bf is a nice guy, you don't even like them dating them, and we're not even talking about suspicions or allegations that he's an abuser. Do you still have no apprehensions?

"I'm not a GP, but I can tell you that if my child's ex demanded that I have a psych evaluation in order to spend some extended time with the grandchildren , I'd have had a real hard time being courteous to that person after the fact.. On what grounds? On the grounds of allegations of someone that you yourself are portraying as a flake? If I were a GP, I'd frankly be very insulted."

See, this is where you are really missing the reality of what should have happened here, aren't you? If I get this request as a GP, I'm way more than insulted if I'm innocent, I'm going right for slander. If my wife's daughter is going around telling people that I abused her physically and I did NOT, then she gets slapped with a law suit, and our marriage is immediately in dire straights. Period. Oh, and I might also give the common courtesy to my fellow man married to one of our beloved mom-daughter combo, that I did NOT do it. Personally tell him, over a beer or something. NEVER Happened.

If I DID DO IT, then yeah, I pretend to be aghast by such an idea. I hope that my wife still thinks or beleives I did NOT do it, and we both let her daughter live in fantasy land.

"It says a lot about the character of these folks that they communicate with you at all. Obviously they must really want to have a relationship with their grandchildren to put up with this crap. (Cause they are getting it probably from both their own child and from you)."

My kids tell me that both GP's actually not only still like me, but like me better than the kid's mom, pathetically sad.

"What concrete evidence do you have, besides what Mom has professed to, that proves that the grandparents are a danger to these children?"
As stated, NONE.

"Legally you don't have to give them any of your time."
Agreed.

"But if these people can manage to be nice to you, and love the kids, they may be fairly decent people. I'd try to facilitate the relationship rather than hinder it. Not because it had particular value to me, but because it could have value to my children."
This is the hard part, if something does happen, then what, how do I justify that? I know one could say that about ANY ONE with no proof, but these allegations were strong, the would have to be completely false and they would have to still to this day be snowballing her own Dad, and have snowballed me completely at one time in my life as well. Does that not count for or justify my caution??

With this backdrop, if this is your daughter, do you let her over with the step-GF on your time, in his sole care, with no reservations or trepidation? Do you?

 

[bd420]

Where did I say he had to...

"NO you do NOT comprehend real well. Lets just start there shall we. LEGALLY he has no reason to submit to your wishes. You being an ass is not a legal reason."

I never said he had a legal obligation to do so, where did I say that?

Legally, you don't have to have sex without protection, even though you may have heard this man you have been panting all over may have STD's. They are just allegations though, you have no proof. You can ask him if he has a recent test and results handy, like from 5 seconds ago, but if he does not, he does NOT have to legally get those tests done in order to have sex with you.

I get all this. Okay? I 'asked him' for piece of mind. He refused. I expected him to refuse. Now I don't know if he's fit, just like you don't know if the revolver has any bullets in the chamber, do you play russian roulette anyways? Sounds like you would? Sounds like a Buckeye quite frankly.

"ETA: And let me just clarify in case you do not GET it. When you have a child you have a choice of being a control happy freak who wants things their way just because they can or stepping aside and putting the CHILD/REN first so that they child/ren can learn to have relationships with all of their extended family. You are portraying yourself as being in the FIRST group."

I know, I know!!! When the kids told me they were going on that family fun place Las Vegas Nevada, and my parents told me "Don't Consent to that", I gave it my blessing. The kids were excited to go, tickets were bought, flight was booked, Dad finds out after these facts. I had NO LEGAL Right to say NO to this EITHER. I didn't CONSENT to this, but guess what, TOO BAD for ME. They went! To LAS VEGAS. The WALKED THE STRIP. THEY SAW THE PORN FLICKING SCUMS AND THE CARDS ON THE GROUND WITH NUDITY.

I'm such a control freak. I tried to book them alternate tickets to Amsterdam bc they have legal prostitution and the drugs on display can be picked up in the shops cheaply, but F%$K, Amsterdam was all BOOKED!

I've been MORE than Patient with the mom, I have dozens of examples documented just like this.

Please, spare me the mom/woman is always the one that needs to be spared bs. That is the worst aspect of any other wise gr8 forum.

 

[penelope10]

penelope10

Yes, you are right, very manipulative. What's curious about putting grounds on what your ex-wife at one time confided in you, at a time when you did believe her? At one time, I believe her 100%. I hated the GF for what he did.

She was removed from the house bc of this abuse. Her father removed her. He is an ex Army Ranger. He saw the bruises, he told me this.

But still, you are right, it's her word only. She could have made the bruises self inflicted to get out, she could have made the dents in the wall as well. She could have snowballed her father into beleiving it was real, and then in turn snowballed me.

You are right.

But I don't know the truth. If you don't know if your daughter's bf is a nice guy, you don't even like them dating them, and we're not even talking about suspicions or allegations that he's an abuser. Do you still have no apprehensions?

"I'm not a GP, but I can tell you that if my child's ex demanded that I have a psych evaluation in order to spend some extended time with the grandchildren , I'd have had a real hard time being courteous to that person after the fact.. On what grounds? On the grounds of allegations of someone that you yourself are portraying as a flake? If I were a GP, I'd frankly be very insulted."

See, this is where you are really missing the reality of what should have happened here, aren't you? If I get this request as a GP, I'm way more than insulted if I'm innocent, I'm going right for slander. If my wife's daughter is going around telling people that I abused her physically and I did NOT, then she gets slapped with a law suit, and our marriage is immediately in dire straights. Period. Oh, and I might also give the common courtesy to my fellow man married to one of our beloved mom-daughter combo, that I did NOT do it. Personally tell him, over a beer or something. NEVER Happened.

If I DID DO IT, then yeah, I pretend to be aghast by such an idea. I hope that my wife still thinks or beleives I did NOT do it, and we both let her daughter live in fantasy land.

"It says a lot about the character of these folks that they communicate with you at all. Obviously they must really want to have a relationship with their grandchildren to put up with this crap. (Cause they are getting it probably from both their own child and from you)."

My kids tell me that both GP's actually not only still like me, but like me better than the kid's mom, pathetically sad.

"What concrete evidence do you have, besides what Mom has professed to, that proves that the grandparents are a danger to these children?"
As stated, NONE.

"Legally you don't have to give them any of your time."
Agreed.

"But if these people can manage to be nice to you, and love the kids, they may be fairly decent people. I'd try to facilitate the relationship rather than hinder it. Not because it had particular value to me, but because it could have value to my children."
This is the hard part, if something does happen, then what, how do I justify that? I know one could say that about ANY ONE with no proof, but these allegations were strong, the would have to be completely false and they would have to still to this day be snowballing her own Dad, and have snowballed me completely at one time in my life as well. Does that not count for or justify my caution??

With this backdrop, if this is your daughter, do you let her over with the step-GF on your time, in his sole care, with no reservations or trepidation? Do you?

Were there ever any formal charges brought against step GP for abuse? (As in real, documented proof?) And obviously your ex now presents as feeling comfortable letting these people have time with the kiddos alone. Have the kids ever stated that their experience with these people is anything other than pleasant?

As far as step GP filing a lawsuit against his step daughter...could be he didn't feel compelled to do so for several reasons. One of which would be that DESPITE the allegations, this is still his wife's child. And there are grandchildren involved now. You have to do what your comfort level is. Obviously these folks seem to be motivated to stay in the grandkid's lives despite the drama. And to be nice to you.

 

[Ohiogal]

I never said he had a legal obligation to do so, where did I say that?

You seemed to expect it. After all it is in your divorce decree.

Legally, you don't have to have sex without protection, even though you may have heard this man you have been panting all over may have STD's. They are just allegations though, you have no proof. You can ask him if he has a recent test and results handy, like from 5 seconds ago, but if he does not, he does NOT have to legally get those tests done in order to have sex with you.

Oh really? I don't have sex with people with STDs. Maybe you do but I don't. No one has to get tests done. But I also don't have to have sex either. I have control over myself and no one else. I accept that fact.

I get all this. Okay? I 'asked him' for piece of mind.

Piece of mind? Don't give those up too easily. You don't have any to spare. The proper phrase is PEACE OF MIND.

He refused. I expected him to refuse. Now I don't know if he's fit, just like you don't know if the revolver has any bullets in the chamber, do you play russian roulette anyways? Sounds like you would? Sounds like a Buckeye quite frankly.

I don't play russian roulette. Any responsible gun owner knows to treat EVERY weapon as though it is loaded.

I know, I know!!! When the kids told me they were going on that family fun place Las Vegas Nevada, and my parents told me "Don't Consent to that", I gave it my blessing.

You didn't have to consent. Doesn't mean you could have stopped it.

The kids were excited to go, tickets were bought, flight was booked, Dad finds out after these facts. I had NO LEGAL Right to say NO to this EITHER. I didn't CONSENT to this, but guess what, TOO BAD for ME. They went! To LAS VEGAS. The WALKED THE STRIP. THEY SAW THE PORN FLICKING SCUMS AND THE CARDS ON THE GROUND WITH NUDITY.

You didn't consent but you gave it your blessing. YOu are full of double talk. Las Vegas is not hell on earth believe it or not. How do you know they saw porn flicking scums? Did they bring you back a card? Let me guess, you also don't like downtowns in any major city because they have strip clubs?

I'm such a control freak. I tried to book them alternate tickets to Amsterdam bc they have legal prostitution and the drugs on display can be picked up in the shops cheaply, but F%$K, Amsterdam was all BOOKED!

Your true ignorance and arrogance is showing.

I've been MORE than Patient with the mom, I have dozens of examples documented just like this.

Yep. Got it.

Please, spare me the mom/woman is always the one that needs to be spared bs. That is the worst aspect of any other wise gr8 forum.

You apparently haven't read a lot. NO one is said that the mom/woman is always the one that needs to be spared. I didn't say that here. What I said is the CHILDREN deserve better than this. The children deserve to be spared. Give me a break. Grow up and again LEARN TO COMPREHEND. You have shown quite clearly how that is a shortfall of yours.

 

[Ohiogal]

Were there ever any formal charges brought against step GP for abuse? (As in real, documented proof?) And obviously your ex now presents as feeling comfortable letting these people have time with the kiddos alone. Have the kids ever stated that their experience with these people is anything other than pleasant?

As far as step GP filing a lawsuit against his step daughter...could be he didn't feel compelled to do so for several reasons. One of which would be that DESPITE the allegations, this is still his wife's child. And there are grandchildren involved now. You have to do what your comfort level is. Obviously these folks seem to be motivated to stay in the grandkid's lives despite the drama. And to be nice to you.

Penelope, keep reading. This man doesn't get it. We are all pro woman of course.

 

[bd420]

Expectely Wrong

Pene:

"Were there ever any formal charges brought against step GP for abuse? (As in real, documented proof?)"
NO.

"And obviously your ex now presents as feeling comfortable letting these people have time with the kiddos alone."
Correct, so comfy in fact that the GF was the only person that showed up at one of our last divorce negotiation pow-wows years ago.

"Have the kids ever stated that their experience with these people is anything other than pleasant?"
Nothing out of the ordinary.

"As far as step GP filing a lawsuit against his step daughter...could be he didn't feel compelled to do so for several reasons. One of which would be that DESPITE the allegations, this is still his wife's child. And there are grandchildren involved now. You have to do what your comfort level is. Obviously these folks seem to be motivated to stay in the grandkid's lives despite the drama. And to be nice to you."
I can see that point, having not worked for 11 years, he definitely is not the motivated type.


I never said he had a legal obligation to do so, where did I say that?

"You seemed to expect it. After all it is in your divorce decree."
I can't follow your logic, although this speaks volumes about you, you based me thinking I had a legal right to the GF getting a PE bc I placed a desire to have one in a draft of 1 of our divorce settlements. Gotcha.

I asked for many things in the divorce settlement that aren't legally enforceable, and she denied ALL OF THEM. When I asked that she pay for 100% of either kids therapy IF said therapy was as a result of her now hubby being introduced into the kids lives 3 weeks into the separation, I knew that wasn't legal too. I still asked for it, she denied it. I expected it.

When I asked for an MRI to be done on her sister, who had been a chronic Meth Addict for 7 years, longer than the national average bc most DIE after 5 years of chronic use, for the purpose of proving that she has had brain damage do to current and prolonged drug use and therefore should NOT be EVER in charge of primarily caring for the kids, it got DENIED. I knew this wasn't legal. Guess what, said sister blacked out during one of the times she was 'watching' my kids on her sister's time. Not surprising at all. What is surprising is that she also DROVE both of my kids around and thankfully never BLACKED OUT while doing that.

No legal obligations, no kidding, i know, you assumed, you got it wrong, apology accepted. At least I have these non-legal requests actually documented, lawyers on both sides saw them and different progressions in the final document. I did my due diligence at most every turn.

"Oh really? I don't have sex with people with STDs. Maybe you do but I don't. No one has to get tests done. But I also don't have to have sex either. I have control over myself and no one else. I accept that fact. "

Exactly, I guess this is your long-winded way of saying you agree 100% with the analogy I just wrote, how hard was that?

Quote:I get all this. Okay? I 'asked him' for piece of mind.

"Piece of mind? Don't give those up too easily. You don't have any to spare. The proper phrase is PEACE OF MIND."
Apparently you aren't an Iron Maiden fan, nice low blow though.

"I don't play russian roulette. Any responsible gun owner knows to treat EVERY weapon as though it is loaded." Exactly, you're coming around.

"You didn't have to consent. Doesn't mean you could have stopped it." Exactly, I could not stop her from taking them even with a non-legal verbal or written dissent.

"You didn't consent but you gave it your blessing. YOu are full of double talk."
You are full of assumptions and revisionist history. Telling your kids to go have a good time and telling their mom she is making a big mistake and you don't want her to take them, is giving dissent to one and blessings to another.

I tell my kids to have fun at their mom's house every week. I don't want them to be there. Yet I tell them to have fun while they are there. Wow, see how those 2 can work together?

"Las Vegas is not hell on earth believe it or not."

Do you hear that trailing off sound? That was the last shred of credibility you had on giving advice about family parenting and trip destinations. Sin F'ing City is not hell on earth for children. It's an ADULT Freaking Playground woman, are nuts?!!! Have you been to the strip? Have you seen any documentaries? Do you have a pulse?

"How do you know they saw porn flicking scums?" They told me? First day on the phone, hey dad, guess what we say all over the strip? Egads, are you dumm or ignorant? Hoping the latter, if so, stop giving advice on LV for kids until you educate yourself.

"Did they bring you back a card?"
They needed a card as physical proof to the nudity, whinos, drunks, strippers, porno mags that are prevalent in Sin City, serious? Yknow they also Gamble there, right?

"Let me guess, you also don't like downtowns in any major city because they have strip clubs?"

LMAO, you are a hoot. Yes all major cities with strip clubs are very analagous to the largest adult playground in the world, to the city that never sleeps. As you obviously Don't Know, the strip is NOT DOWNTOWN either, which is typically referred to as a few blocks past the Fremont Experience.

"Your true ignorance and arrogance is showing."
If you can read arrogance in my posts, how do you fail to see you are pro-women in some of yours? Double Standard?

"You apparently haven't read a lot. NO one is said that the mom/woman is always the one that needs to be spared. I didn't say that here."
You don't explicitly say it, of course, you are much more subtle than that, but it's a negative to a great site.

"What I said is the CHILDREN deserve better than this. The children deserve to be spared. Give me a break. Grow up and again LEARN TO COMPREHEND. You have shown quite clearly how that is a shortfall of yours."

Children deserved to be spared in one hand, and LV is okay for the youth of America in the next hand. mkay. I understand most of what everyone else has been trying to spell out, except your text, which I'm no longer willing to decipher.

Look, let's agree that the next topic I post, you just won't be a part of? Since me and you obviously aren't contributing anything of substance to topics in which other dads could find a lot of useful info.
__________________
Parents should remember two things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex (or soon to be ex) and when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death parts you.

 

[penelope10]

Here's what I think, based on reading. And I'm just going to speak to the GP issue. Thus far there has been no conclusive proof that these folks are going to be abusive to the kids. I can see that you are very angry. Particularly at step GF as he showed up at one of the hearings. Maybe the reason he showed up was because he heard one of things you wanted was a psch eval. for him. (The fact that he hasn't worked for years really is a non issue, other than to perhaps show that you think the guy is a bum). Legally you don't have to give these folks any time that is otherwise yours with the kids. However, are your concerns based in reality, or mostly on angry feelings that really, at this time, are not appropriate? Like I said, if these people love the kids, have done the kids no harm, and the kids in turn love them back, perhaps they should be given an opportunity to have some access. Now certainly you don't have to immediately send them off for a couple of days if you feel uncomfortable. Perhaps, over time, this can be something that is worked towards.

Also I am a little confused at the direction of the last post directed to me as all I have spoken of is in regards to the GP's. Nothing about the Las Vegas trip etc.