Can I appeal camera ticket?

[Amyca]

Hi folks. My sister get a camera ticket in the East Bay of California. Since I am not the one driving and I was at work (in a meeting) with a lot of witness, I decide to fight the ticket. I brought pictures (family members who look like me and one of them is even my sister), a co-worker (a witness who was with me when the camera took the picture) and receipts of my credit card (I purchase lunch later that day in a town 90 miles away). I read the forum and other sites advice, I use not guilty-identity as my defense. However, even with all the evident I still found guilty.
The judge is not interested in my witness or pictures. He found me guilty once I said I have nothing to ask the officer who testify first. He said base on the picture and the license plate which register to me, I am guilty. When I told him that I have a witness that he hasn't listen to, he then ask her forward. Even though she testify I was with her during that time in the office which is 90 miles away, it doesn't do anything. He only ask her if she is the one driving the car, when she say no, he dismiss her.
I ask the judge I can't be in two place at the same time, even I have a witness to prove that, none of that matter? He said base on the proof he has, it is sufficent for him to find me guilty.
I ask him why he didn't want to look at the picture I brought, he then want me to pass it along and said I am still guilty.
As I am walking out of court, the officer told me that I should have told who is really driving that will save everyone a lot of time and energy.
Do I have a case for appeal? Should I bring more witness? I was at a breakfast meeting, at least 10 people saw me there. By the way, I have the case recorded which I don't think the judge is very please about that.
Please advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[seniorjudge]

Yes; you may appeal.

Hurry.

 

[Amyca]

Thanks for the quick reply. As I am writing this case, I still feel upset and surprise by it. I just feel so unfair that I found guilty for something I didn't do. Since this is the first time I ever appeal a case (I only been to traffic court twice in my life), can you give me some advice?

1. I was found guilty on 8/7, is it too late to do it?
2. Is there a form I need to file to get the process start?
3. What does the process involve?
4. What do I do during the appeal trial? Do I bring the same witness and evident?
5. What happen if I lost again? Can they double my fine?

Thanks in advance.

 

[seniorjudge]

http://www.sbcourts.org/general_info/case_types/traffic.asp

I don't know what county you are in, but take a look here.

It will help you start your research.

 

[CourtClerk]

When you first got the ticket, why didn't you sign the affidavit declaring you were not the driver and provide the name and address of the person driving the vehicle?

Or... did you think you could just plead not guilty and everyone gets off without a ticket?

 

[Zigner]

Or... did you think you could just plead not guilty and everyone gets off without a ticket?

Actually - yeah...that's the way it works (according to the law). If the picture shows that he was NOT the driver, then he should be found not guilty. There is no legal requirement that he identify the driver.

 

[CourtClerk]

Actually - yeah...that's the way it works (according to the law). If the picture shows that he was NOT the driver, then he should be found not guilty. There is no legal requirement that he identify the driver.

In all my years of clerking in a traffic court... never seen it happen...

 

[Zigner]

In all my years of clerking in a traffic court... never seen it happen...

I know that reality doesn't always follow the letter of the law Particularly when it comes to the red light tickets.
As you know, I *HATE* people who try to skate by on technicalities. However, on this particular subject, I'm all for it. If the person didn't run the red light, the person shouldn't be punished for it.

 

[CourtClerk]

If the person didn't run the red light, the person shouldn't be punished for it.

I don't believe that they should be punished for it either, however, had they followed procedure, they wouldn't - and to think, had they done it properly, they wouldn't be out all of this time and trouble to deal with it. Time is money... by now, the OP has expended probably as much as the ticket to clear this up, and they won't get that back.

 

[Zigner]

I don't believe that they should be punished for it either, however, had they followed procedure, they wouldn't - and to think, had they done it properly, they wouldn't be out all of this time and trouble to deal with it. Time is money... by now, the OP has expended probably as much as the ticket to clear this up, and they won't get that back.

THAT is the crux of it. Doing it "properly" would mean that the OP would NOT be "required" to name the driver.

 

[seniorjudge]

THAT is the crux of it. Doing it "properly" would mean that the OP would NOT be "required" to name the driver.

I love crux on fresh, green salads.

 

[Amyca]

After doing some research and reading up on a no-lo book, I think I get a pretty good idea on the appeal process. I am in the county of San Joaquin. At this point, I am not sure what to put on the proposed statement. Since it requires a legal error for appeal, do I really have one? Can it be the judge ignore my witness, not giving a reason why he ignore the witness ground for appeal? Is there anything else I can use? Please advice.

Thanks in advance.

 

[JIMinCA]

I don't believe that they should be punished for it either, however, had they followed procedure, they wouldn't - and to think, had they done it properly, they wouldn't be out all of this time and trouble to deal with it. Time is money... by now, the OP has expended probably as much as the ticket to clear this up, and they won't get that back.

The only "procedure" he needed to follow was to show he wan't the driver. He was charged with running a redlight... he was NOT charged with failing to follow "procedures". Any justification that you may conjure that would suggest that an innocent man should be prosecuted is downright insulting.

Oh... by the way... the cop was a real jerk as well by suggesting that the OP somehow had a responsibility to assist the prosecution. Pure BS.

 

[JIMinCA]

After doing some research and reading up on a no-lo book, I think I get a pretty good idea on the appeal process. I am in the county of San Joaquin. At this point, I am not sure what to put on the proposed statement. Since it requires a legal error for appeal, do I really have one? Can it be the judge ignore my witness, not giving a reason why he ignore the witness ground for appeal? Is there anything else I can use? Please advice.

Thanks in advance.

Here are some basic instructions on your appeal. http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/tr150.pdf

You can find the forms here: California Courts: Forms

You do have legal error appeal:

Judicial error: You presented evidence that the person in the photo was not you AND you presented a witness that confirmed a positive alibi. The judge did not have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict.


You need to get your notice to appeal in within 30 days of your conviction. Then, you have 15 days to provide your proposed statement. If you would like to post your proposed statement here, I'm sure we could offer comments.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

After doing some research and reading up on a no-lo book, I think I get a pretty good idea on the appeal process. I am in the county of San Joaquin. At this point, I am not sure what to put on the proposed statement. Since it requires a legal error for appeal, do I really have one? Can it be the judge ignore my witness, not giving a reason why he ignore the witness ground for appeal? Is there anything else I can use? Please advice.

Thanks in advance.

Amy,you have until September 6th to file you "Notice of Appeal". That should get the process started...

Don't delay on the basis that you are unsure as to what you should state in your "Proposed statement"! That is due 15 days after you file the "Notice of Appeal" which should be plenty of time to decide on the grounds for your appeal.

I think you can "judicial error" (the judge issued a decision then questioned the witness & looked at evidence (picture)... Then reaffirmed his (erroneous) decision.

Additionally, when he questioned your witness, he asked her if she was the driver instead of asking her if she can vouch for your whereabouts at the time the violation occurred... Which is what you brought her there to testify to).

Alternatively, you might be able to use "insufficient evidence" as grounds for your appeal. Although this might prove to be a weaker grounds than the first one I mentioned.

I would also recommend that you review as many appeals court cases that are similar to yours... You might get a few more ideas from cases that succeeded in getting a reversal. During that time, keep a record of cases that you can cite later on when you file your brief.

You made a great decision to record the trial... That should prove to be extremely helpful when you complete your proposed statement but it will also prove to be highly beneficial to you as it gives very little room for the lower court to prolong the process to settle your statement. (You need to accurately transcribe that recording and include it as part of your proposed statement... (under the Statement of Evidence section of form TR-160) So make a duplicate copy of that tape).

After doing some research and reading up on a no-lo book

Is it the "Fight Your Ticket in California" (or something to that effect?) That's a great book that should provide some great insight as to the appeals process...

Good luck. . .