What is this??? Separation agreement?

[Shygrl]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

My husband and I split up on November 28, 2006. Divorce was not filed until Feb or March 2007 (I don't have the complaint with me so I'm estimating at the moment). In the complaint, the date of separation was listed as November 28, 2006. It was my understanding that there is no "legal separation" in Pennsylvania, so the court would go by this date.

I consulted a lawyer a few weeks ago because I had some concerns and to clarify the date at which time I can press the court to finalize the divorce. I was told that was November 28.

I posted here because my husband had been asking me to pay him to file the final divorce papers and I refused because I don't have the money. I can't afford to retain a lawyer at this time.

So today he hands me the papers he's been holding since late June 2008. They are not what I expected. For the most part it seems to state that we are settling are marital assets as-is. I am fine with that. I want nothing from him. However, the paper clearly states that this is a "separation agreement."

SEPARATION

It shall be lawful for each of the parties at all times after the date of this agreement, to live separate and apart from the other party at such place or places as he or she may from time to time choose or deem fit.

(I do NOT want him to be able to move so far that it significantly affects my share of the custody of our children. Does this need to be addressed?)

THEN says this:

DIVORCE
"The parties agree that the marriage is irretrievably broken and will proceed with said Divorce under 23 Pa.C.S.A. Section 3301(c) after July 1, 2009. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit either party to proceed under Section 3301(d), if, and only if, the other party refuses to consent to the Divorce under section 3301(c), provided the Divorce Decree is not entered prior to July 1, 2009.

There are other items that I don't understand at all. I will transcribe the entire thing if anyone cares to help me understand it. But for now, where in the world did July 1, 2009 come from? That's pushing three years from the time we split up and it's also more than two years from the date the complaint was filed. Can I get that changed? If I'm representing myself, would it be appropriate for me to contact my husbands lawyer to iron out the details. I just want a divorce and I don't want it to drag out for another 9 months!

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

My husband and I split up on November 28, 2006. Divorce was not filed until Feb or March 2007 (I don't have the complaint with me so I'm estimating at the moment). In the complaint, the date of separation was listed as November 28, 2006. It was my understanding that there is no "legal separation" in Pennsylvania, so the court would go by this date.

I consulted a lawyer a few weeks ago because I had some concerns and to clarify the date at which time I can press the court to finalize the divorce. I was told that was November 28.

I posted here because my husband had been asking me to pay him to file the final divorce papers and I refused because I don't have the money. I can't afford to retain a lawyer at this time.

So today he hands me the papers he's been holding since late June 2008. They are not what I expected. For the most part it seems to state that we are settling are marital assets as-is. I am fine with that. I want nothing from him. However, the paper clearly states that this is a "separation agreement."

SEPARATION

It shall be lawful for each of the parties at all times after the date of this agreement, to live separate and apart from the other party at such place or places as he or she may from time to time choose or deem fit.

(I do NOT want him to be able to move so far that it significantly affects my share of the custody of our children. Does this need to be addressed?)

THEN says this:

DIVORCE
"The parties agree that the marriage is irretrievably broken and will proceed with said Divorce under 23 Pa.C.S.A. Section 3301(c) after July 1, 2009. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit either party to proceed under Section 3301(d), if, and only if, the other party refuses to consent to the Divorce under section 3301(c), provided the Divorce Decree is not entered prior to July 1, 2009.

There are other items that I don't understand at all. I will transcribe the entire thing if anyone cares to help me understand it. But for now, where in the world did July 1, 2009 come from? That's pushing three years from the time we split up and it's also more than two years from the date the complaint was filed. Can I get that changed? If I'm representing myself, would it be appropriate for me to contact my husbands lawyer to iron out the details. I just want a divorce and I don't want it to drag out for another 9 months!

Its time for you to get your own attorney. Seriously. You don't understand what you are doing well enough to continue on your own, and odds are that you are going to overlook something major, and end up back here in another couple of years, wondering how to fix it.

 

[Shygrl]

I have not yet met a lawyer who will take me without a big fat retainer, which I do not have. I'm so close to the end, if only someone will take my case and let me just pay as I go. Not that I blame them, but it doesn't make it easy for people like me to get help. Make too much to get legal aid, but not enough to pay a big amount up front.

 

[seniorjudge]

Its time for you to get your own attorney. Seriously. You don't understand what you are doing well enough to continue on your own, and odds are that you are going to overlook something major, and end up back here in another couple of years, wondering how to fix it.

I agree.

Call the state bar in your state and ask for a referral.

 

[mistoffolees]

I have not yet met a lawyer who will take me without a big fat retainer, which I do not have. I'm so close to the end, if only someone will take my case and let me just pay as I go. Not that I blame them, but it doesn't make it easy for people like me to get help. Make too much to get legal aid, but not enough to pay a big amount up front.

You should interview some attorneys. It is very, very common for an attorney to petition the court to be paid from marital assets. Many other attorneys work on a pay-as-you-go basis. Still others will work out a time payment plan. Your implication that all attorneys require a large retainer is just incorrect.

Furthermore, are you familiar with the phrase 'penny wise and pound foolish'? In many (if not most) cases, saving a few dollars by skipping an attorney on a divorce is exactly that.

 

[Shygrl]

I didn't say all. I just haven't met one yet. I will resume my search Monday.

I'm smart enough to see that he's taking advantage of me not having a lawyer and trying to pull the wool over my eyes. I was hoping to get some insight on how he can write up a separation agreement in a state that does not recognize legal separation in any formal way. I am wanting to know what something like that could do to my case.

Not that it matters because I'm not signing it, but I want to know what he and his lawyer are trying to accomplish by taking what should be a simple financial settlement and turning it into a complicated separation agreement addressing separation, living arrangements, whether or not we can see other people, the ability to file any suits in court, and the red flag that made me stop reading was changing the end of the waiting period (after which I do not need his consent to divorce) from what should have been November 08 by default to JULY 09.

 

[las365]

Do you and your husband have children together? How much value does your marital property have?

 

[Shygrl]

Do you and your husband have children together? How much value does your marital property have?

Yes we have children. We share custody 70/30 and the order is final and filed with the court. Child support is paid by me. There is no alimony/spousal support.

There is not much left in terms of property. My car. His car. Our respective retiremement accounts. Household items have been split fairly evenly and the house itself is gone. We are content with the way things are and want nothing from each other.

I consulted a lawyer because despite our verbal agreement to these terms, he was dragging his feet on giving me the paperwork and filing his consent for divorce. My husband told me I must pay him additional money ($300) to help pay his lawyer. I told him I don't have the money.

We've been separated for almost two years... at which point I can petition for the divorce without him. He would have to have a very good reason to contest it. The lawyer told me I do not need to file the financial agreement with the court. Just have us sign and notorize it and keep it for our own records and protection in the future. This surprised me, but it simplifies the process my husband seems to want to make extremely complicated.

The lawyer told me to try to settle this without him since it seems so simple and he would want $700 (half of what he would normally require) if I want him to finish it for me. I do not have $700 or the means to come up with it quickly.

He decided this weekend to give me the paperwork that his lawyer worked up in June that was supposed to be the financial settlement. It turned out to be a financial settlement and separation agreement. I have serious concerns about some of the items in it because it could allow him to manipulate the shared custody by preventing me from fighting him if he wants to move far away. He has the majority physical custody, so he would expect to take the kids with him. I do not want this to prevent me from fighting it if he does. I do not know that he will and he doesn't seem to have any plans, but I don't want to leave that door open for him.

Also, it very formally describes a separation, where in PA I'm told there is no legal separation. It sounds like a waste of ink to me and what would happen if I signed such a thing. A divorce would accomplish everything that he's outlined so what is it for? Why not just consent to the divorce?

Then with two years coming up in two months, the date in this "agreement" is for the middle of next year. Not if I can help it! I think he just wants to control me for as long as he can. Why else would he do that?

Finally he wants us to sign a waiver that neither of us can file suit against the other. As much as I would love that he can't sue me for anything else, I do not want to be prevented from protecting myself, especially when it comes to my time with the children. (If he moves) Or if he wants to trade roles and have me take the mojority (for whatever reason), I want to be able to adjust the child support accordingly.

I think, based on the lawyer's advice, that this document is far more than necessary, and only intended to control me more. I did not have the paper at the time of my consultation so he did not see it.

 

[LdiJ]

Yes we have children. We share custody 70/30 and the order is final and filed with the court. Child support is paid by me. There is no alimony/spousal support.

There is not much left in terms of property. My car. His car. Our respective retiremement accounts. Household items have been split fairly evenly and the house itself is gone. We are content with the way things are and want nothing from each other.

I consulted a lawyer because despite our verbal agreement to these terms, he was dragging his feet on giving me the paperwork and filing his consent for divorce. My husband told me I must pay him additional money ($300) to help pay his lawyer. I told him I don't have the money.

We've been separated for almost two years... at which point I can petition for the divorce without him. He would have to have a very good reason to contest it. The lawyer told me I do not need to file the financial agreement with the court. Just have us sign and notorize it and keep it for our own records and protection in the future. This surprised me, but it simplifies the process my husband seems to want to make extremely complicated.

The lawyer told me to try to settle this without him since it seems so simple and he would want $700 (half of what he would normally require) if I want him to finish it for me. I do not have $700 or the means to come up with it quickly.

He decided this weekend to give me the paperwork that his lawyer worked up in June that was supposed to be the financial settlement. It turned out to be a financial settlement and separation agreement. I have serious concerns about some of the items in it because it could allow him to manipulate the shared custody by preventing me from fighting him if he wants to move far away. He has the majority physical custody, so he would expect to take the kids with him. I do not want this to prevent me from fighting it if he does. I do not know that he will and he doesn't seem to have any plans, but I don't want to leave that door open for him.

Also, it very formally describes a separation, where in PA I'm told there is no legal separation. It sounds like a waste of ink to me and what would happen if I signed such a thing. A divorce would accomplish everything that he's outlined so what is it for? Why not just consent to the divorce?

Then with two years coming up in two months, the date in this "agreement" is for the middle of next year. Not if I can help it! I think he just wants to control me for as long as he can. Why else would he do that?

Finally he wants us to sign a waiver that neither of us can file suit against the other. As much as I would love that he can't sue me for anything else, I do not want to be prevented from protecting myself, especially when it comes to my time with the children. (If he moves) Or if he wants to trade roles and have me take the mojority (for whatever reason), I want to be able to adjust the child support accordingly.

I think, based on the lawyer's advice, that this document is far more than necessary, and only intended to control me more. I did not have the paper at the time of my consultation so he did not see it.

You really need to borrow the money from somewhere for the attorney.

 

[Shygrl]

Follow up question

I went to see an attorney today. Essentially, the agreement is fine except for the one paragraph, which I plan to ask him to remove from the agreement.

This is a hypothetical question. I want to know what will happen IF he doesn't follow through with this.

He has not withdrawn any claims. Neither have I. At the end of November I "could" file for the divorce without him, but with these issues still pending, (again, this is under the assumption that he won't actually file this financial settlement) what will happen next?

Will there be a court date to determine the financials? Will I have to request a court date to do this? Will there be mediation ordered? What is the process if one spouse refuses to sign off on anything at all? How does one get divorced?

I can't see where he would benefit from dragging this out more other than to irritate me. He stands to lose a good bit if he forces the court to decide our finances for us.
This is financial only. Children are not the issue as that has already been taken care of.

 

[Ohiogal]

I went to see an attorney today. Essentially, the agreement is fine except for the one paragraph, which I plan to ask him to remove from the agreement.

This is a hypothetical question. I want to know what will happen IF he doesn't follow through with this.

He has not withdrawn any claims. Neither have I. At the end of November I "could" file for the divorce without him, but with these issues still pending, (again, this is under the assumption that he won't actually file this financial settlement) what will happen next?

Will there be a court date to determine the financials? Will I have to request a court date to do this? Will there be mediation ordered? What is the process if one spouse refuses to sign off on anything at all? How does one get divorced?

I can't see where he would benefit from dragging this out more other than to irritate me. He stands to lose a good bit if he forces the court to decide our finances for us.
This is financial only. Children are not the issue as that has already been taken care of.

Did you read the local rules? DID YOU? If not go to the local law library and read them.

 

[mistoffolees]

Did you read the local rules? DID YOU? If not go to the local law library and read them.

She really needs to spend some time with her attorney and ask him to explain the procedure.

She says that her stbx will lose if the court decides financials (implying that he's keeping more than half), so the attorney can be paid out of marital assets and it shouldn't hurt her much.

 

[Shygrl]

Did you read the local rules? DID YOU? If not go to the local law library and read them.

Sweetheart, no amount of reading has helped me fully understand this. I have difficulty understanding all of the language. I was hoping to get something in english. Before you say go back to my lawyer and ask, understand that not everyone has a law degree and collects a lawyer's salary. That is why idiots like myself dare come to a forum and ask for advice. I know that you and others volunteer your time, you need not remind me. Apparently I am not worthy of your precious time and will retreat, tail between my legs, to said library.

For the other responder, the marital assets are not worth much. Based on what I do know about court, what I would get would not cover the cost. A trial at this point would be ludacris. However, this wouldn't be the first time we signed papers to settle and he "pulled the football away" so-to-speak. So I am bracing myself for the possibility that he will do it again. And with time on my side at this point, I can actually do something about it. I would prefer not to go in blindly (or broke), which is why I asked this question in the first place.

 

[Ohiogal]

Sweetheart,

I am NOT your sweetheart. Your rudeness and arrogance is amazing. Get over yourself and grow up. Do not ever believe you have a right to address me that way.

no amount of reading has helped me fully understand this. I have difficulty understanding all of the language. I was hoping to get something in english. Before you say go back to my lawyer and ask, understand that not everyone has a law degree and collects a lawyer's salary. That is why idiots like myself dare come to a forum and ask for advice. I know that you and others volunteer your time, you need not remind me. Apparently I am not worthy of your precious time and will retreat, tail between my legs, to said library.

You need to learn to read. NO ONE is going to walk you through anything. You are assinine if you believe that your attitude will ever get you information from me. IF you are not willing to even attempt to help yourself I sure as heck won't squander my education on you -- I couldn't dumb it down that far.

For the other responder, the marital assets are not worth much. Based on what I do know about court, what I would get would not cover the cost. A trial at this point would be ludacris. However, this wouldn't be the first time we signed papers to settle and he "pulled the football away" so-to-speak. So I am bracing myself for the possibility that he will do it again. And with time on my side at this point, I can actually do something about it. I would prefer not to go in blindly (or broke), which is why I asked this question in the first place.

Oh well. Then you might as well not fight over anything quite frankly.

 

[Ohiogal]

She really needs to spend some time with her attorney and ask him to explain the procedure.

She says that her stbx will lose if the court decides financials (implying that he's keeping more than half), so the attorney can be paid out of marital assets and it shouldn't hurt her much.

Actually the little girl really needs an attitude adjustment because quite frankly her arrogance is only matched by her ignorance.