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Student Judicial Review Programs

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mb17889

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Maryland

I was fined under a Student Judicial program for a infraction, copyright violation, I did not commit. I believe my roommate downloaded a song illegally but we were on the same network because one of the ethernet ports in my dorm room was broken. The University uses a balance of probability standard, so once they link an IP address to my name, the case is essentially over unless somebody confesses and takes the blame (my roommate won't).

I appealed the decision based on the fact that the Hearing Board's decision substantially departs from the provisions enumerated in the Student Code of Conduct but they denied my appeal (and did not even address the primary basis of my appeal).

I am wondering what gives Universities the right to fine students without consent. How do they have a claim on my assets through coercion (my "good standing"). I checked the online policy and there is nothing that suggests I am subject to fine for an infraction. Yet somehow they get $100 from me?

I have spoken to the Assistant Vice President of Student Affairs about the issue. She has not gotten back to me yet.

I spoke to the Director of Student Programs for about an hour (he is a lawyer on the University council). He made a ridiculous analogy... "if a person commits a murder on campus, don't we have a right to kick them out of the community?" I answered by saying first the university has no business saying who is guilty of murder. The other things are that the university owns the property of the murder, but not the copyright of the song (though they own the network used to download the song).

I didn't say this, but do they have the right to fine the student $100 before kicking them out?

I understand why the university could find me responsible and close my internet account. I understand why they could kick me off campus. I don't understand why they get to threaten me and take $100 without me somehow agreeing to something making me subject to fine. It is in the Student Judicial Policy, but I never "agreed" to that. I agreed to the responsible computing policy, but nowhere does it say I am subject to a fine for infraction (but that they may terminate my access).

Where does the legal idea that enrolling in a class makes one subject to fines (which could be anywhere from $1 to $10000, I'm assuming). Could this apply to admitted persons who are not yet registered for classes?
 


mb17889

Junior Member
I don't believe that is true - that I "implicitly agreed." I don't think there was any "meeting of the minds." But let's suspend this notion for a moment.

Is there any other case where you can "implicitly" agree to give somebody else a claim on your assets (with no upward bound, I might add - there is no written limit to the possible fine). If so, could you provide an example?

What is an "implicit" agreement legally?
 

mb17889

Junior Member
I keep on getting things like "I suspect" and "I'm betting" in replies.

What further information do I need to provide to get a more clear-cut answer? Or are these questions that I need to hire legal help for?

http://www.umbc.edu/sjp/articles/code.html contains a copy of the "code" it seems a couple people think I have agreed to (although it is updated and not the one that was effective when I was charged).

With regard to it being "clear," I don't think so. It says, for instance that "may" is "used in the permissive sense" yet goes on to say you can not use skateboards in a manner which "may cause damage to University property." They declare the ruling of an appeals board to be final, yet this is patently absurd! They have the authority to say that no University official may review the decision, but a court, for instance, could overturn the findings of the Board, right?

If I sound silly, it is because I genuinely lack understanding on these issues. I'm looking for some education here.

Thanks for your time in advance.
 
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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I keep on getting things like "I suspect" and "I'm betting" in replies.
You're right. Take every scrap of paper you have to a local attorney and ask THEM.

We have no way of seeing your documents (and no desire to).
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
I keep on getting things like "I suspect" and "I'm betting" in replies.

What further information do I need to provide to get a more clear-cut answer? Or are these questions that I need to hire legal help for?

Code of Student Conduct, UMBC Student Judicial Programs contains a copy of the "code" it seems a couple people think I have agreed to (although it is updated and not the one that was effective when I was charged).

With regard to it being "clear," I don't think so. It says, for instance that "may" is "used in the permissive sense" yet goes on to say you can not use skateboards in a manner which "may cause damage to University property." They declare the ruling of an appeals board to be final, yet this is patently absurd! They have the authority to say that no University official may review the decision, but a court, for instance, could overturn the findings of the Board, right?

If I sound silly, it is because I genuinely lack understanding on these issues. I'm looking for some education here.

Thanks for your time in advance.
**A: Yup, you need to hire your own attorney. And good luck. You're gonna need it.
 

mb17889

Junior Member
I'm going to go out on a limb here and hope that you guys are done having fun with me and my posts.

Sorry I wasted your time.

But when you've finished the knee slapping, perhaps one of you could help me understand whether what happened here is "implicit" or "explicit" (at least two persons seem to think differently on this based on the posts). And furthermore, what is the difference legally, if any (past explicit agreements make it easier to prove there is a meeting of the minds)?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I'm going to go out on a limb here and hope that you guys are done having fun with me and my posts.

Sorry I wasted your time.

But when you've finished the knee slapping, perhaps one of you could help me understand whether what happened here is "implicit" or "explicit" (at least two persons seem to think differently on this based on the posts). And furthermore, what is the difference legally, if any (past explicit agreements make it easier to prove there is a meeting of the minds)?
What did your lawyer say?
 

mb17889

Junior Member
That one wasn't even funny.

I think we both know I don't have a lawyer. Nor do I have any interest in hiring one.

I'm just trying to find some answers. Perhaps you could give me five seconds of help instead of using it to sharpen your wit.

Or perhaps answer this: do you still think it is a "clear, express" agreement?
 
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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
That one wasn't even funny.

I think we both know I don't have a lawyer. Nor do I have any interest in hiring one.

I'm just trying to find some answers. Perhaps you could give me five seconds of help instead of using it to sharpen your wit.

Or perhaps answer this: do you still think it is a "clear, express" agreement?
I think you should get a lawyer.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
That one wasn't even funny.

I think we both know I don't have a lawyer. Nor do I have any interest in hiring one.

I'm just trying to find some answers. Perhaps you could give me five seconds of help instead of using it to sharpen your wit.

Or perhaps answer this: do you still think it is a "clear, express" agreement?


*A: simple answer is no.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
I didn't say this, but do they have the right to fine the student $100 before kicking them out?
What did they say their reason was for the fine? Did you violate that portion of the student agreement?

I'd say they probably can't fine you without your permission. But then, they don't have to have you as a student either.

Your quarrel is with your roomate. Not with us or with the college.
 

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