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Being sued without information

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Blessedby6

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IN but original debt is in KS

I have been contacted by an attorney's office saying that I was about to be taken to court for an unpaid cc debt from 2001. To avoid going to court I had to set up a payment plan, and did that. The problem is, neither my husband or I can remember ever having this credit card, even thought the attorney says we paid on it for a year. I looked it up and it looks like the original creditor, who apparently was F.C.N.B., has dissolved. The attorney has refused to give me any information other than the original creditor, and the card number, saying it would "show her hand". The attorney informed me that I had been informed of this numerous times, but she had the wrong address and I have never received anything. We only just shredded the bank documents from those years about six months ago because we didn't think we needed them anymore.

How can I go about finding out more about the history of this debt, since my husband and I have no memory of it whatsoever?

If she proceeds with this in court, how does that work since I am in IN and the debt is in KS (and she is in NY)? Will a warrant be put out for me, or will a judgement be entered without me? How would I go about defending myself at all if I can't get to KS?

I'm not trying to get out of this debt is this is a legitimate debt, I've already set up the payment plan to pay it, but does that then say that I am responsible for it, even if we find out there is a mistake somewhere?

Alos, we've even looked at my credit reports, and there is nothing on any of those about a credit card, and we've called every company we can remember doing business with, all with absolutely no record of this. Any other places we could look for more information?

Thanks for your help! I apologize for any typos, I have a sleeping baby on my lap making it somewhat difficult to type.

Naomi
 
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Blessedby6

Junior Member
Does anyone have any idea where I can look for more information on this? I have been looking since I posted this message, and can find absolutely no record of ever having this credit card that I am being sued for. Somebody please give me some ideas! :confused:

Thanks,
Naomi
 

JETX

Senior Member
How can I go about finding out more about the history of this debt, since my husband and I have no memory of it whatsoever?
You need to read and UNDERSTAND the FDCPA (Fair Debt Collections Practices Act). It tells in detail what a 3rd party collector MUST and must NOT do. It sounds like your 'attorney' may have violated several parts of this Act.
Also, I suggest you read the information at Free Credit Reports Credit Repair Counseling Increase Your Credit Score Debt Consolidation
That is a VERY GOOD website with lots of good information.

If she proceeds with this in court, how does that work since I am in IN and the debt is in KS (and she is in NY)?
They have to sue you where YOU live.

Will a warrant be put out for me, or will a judgement be entered without me?
A warrant won't be issued and you would need to be served with notice of the lawsuit.

How would I go about defending myself at all if I can't get to KS?
Won't happen.

I'm not trying to get out of this debt is this is a legitimate debt, I've already set up the payment plan to pay it, but does that then say that I am responsible for it, even if we find out there is a mistake somewhere?
Pretty much. Your payments could be seen as an admission of debt.

Send the debtor a 'validation letter'. See the above site for instructions and forms.
 

Blessedby6

Junior Member
You need to read and UNDERSTAND the FDCPA (Fair Debt Collections Practices Act). It tells in detail what a 3rd party collector MUST and must NOT do. It sounds like your 'attorney' may have violated several parts of this Act.
Also, I suggest you read the information at Free Credit Reports Credit Repair Counseling Increase Your Credit Score Debt Consolidation
That is a VERY GOOD website with lots of good information.
I've been doing some reading on the FDCPA, and even called our state AG who also explained a little more, so I felt that she was violating many things also. Thank you for confirming that. I will look at it some more, and also read the other page you recommended.


They have to sue you where YOU live.
Ok, thank you! That was one of the things I couldn't find information on.


A warrant won't be issued and you would need to be served with notice of the lawsuit.
How would her lack of actually being able to correctly maintain my correct address affect this? She did not have my current address, and I had to tell her my current address four times (each time I called her).


Won't happen.
Thank you.

Pretty much. Your payments could be seen as an admission of debt.
I had thought so after talking it over more with my husband. We had decided to call and cancel the payment plan, so what you say just confirms that feeling.

Send the debtor a 'validation letter'. See the above site for instructions and forms
Thanks! I will look at that!

Thank you very much for your advice, I will look into all of this (FDCPA and other website) much more closely and try to learn some more. I've also applied for pro bono legal counsel for help, since we are living on unemployment at the moment. We've not had much success trying to find a job, we're one of over a thousand that have lost jobs this year in our small town, so hopefully the pro bono counsel will help us.

Thank you!!
 

cosine

Senior Member
The attorney has refused to give me any information other than the original creditor, and the card number, saying it would "show her hand".
The law on how much information they have to provide during collections doesn't require much, amounting to mere identification (even though the term validation is used). If more information would "show her hand", then it sounds suspicious.

I had a case of a junk debt buyer (JDB) trying to sue me. I couldn't get more information from them to determine that they had in fact bought the debt (one that was in dispute with the original creditor who simply stopped communicating about it). I would never pay a JDB even if I owed on the debt without solid proof they owned it, to be sure the original creditor could not come collecting later, legally. After it was explained to the JDB's lawyer by my lawyer just what info I would demand in discovery, they elected to drop the suit.

BTW, they have never attempted to collect on it; they just sued out of the blue. I suspect there is an activity going on in the JDB business where JDBs get info without actually buying, file suits, and see what they can get default judgments on. Then if they get a default judgment, they complete the purchase of the debt. Maybe this is legal in the form of an option (e.g. they bought an option on the debt for a limited time at a very low value, possibly under 1%). But it sure is shady at best.

That "show her hand" comment makes me think this might be a similar case (e.g. the debt ownership trail does not, yet, lead to the party trying to collect).

Maybe I should refer to this practice as "speculation collection".
 

Blessedby6

Junior Member
Thanks cosine,

Quite a bit of what this lady said seemed shady to me after I started talking with my husband and a close friend, and she was VERY upset that I wouldn't just handle things, and kept telling me that "it looks like we are going to have a problem". She was also upset that I "kept pulling her out of her office" while she was "busy with another client", which I didn't think any laywer would do except in real need, not over a simple phone call asking for more information.

The more I read and research on this, the more I think I definitely have a case. I look forward to hearing more advice on this. :)

Thanks!!!
 

TigerD

Senior Member
I suspect there is an activity going on in the JDB business where JDBs get info without actually buying, file suits, and see what they can get default judgments on. Then if they get a default judgment, they complete the purchase of the debt. Maybe this is legal in the form of an option (e.g. they bought an option on the debt for a limited time at a very low value, possibly under 1%). But it sure is shady at best.
That doesn't happen.

DC
 

cosine

Senior Member
That doesn't happen.

DC
You're welcome to explain why a party that may be a CA or may be JDB or may even be neither chooses to file a lawsuit, then chooses to dismiss it instead of producing the evidence that they own the debt, and never attempts to collect this debt before or after.
 

cheezehed

Junior Member
I absolutely agree with Cosine. If they take you to court they need to not only provide the agreement between them and the original creditor but also the detailed statement of what you owe and where it originated. They cannot just take you to court for an amount you have no memory of from a creditor you may or may not have owed. Some of the debt collectors only have the basics of records, not even showing the original credit agreements.
 

JETX

Senior Member
I absolutely agree with Cosine. If they take you to court they need to not only provide the agreement between them and the original creditor but also the detailed statement of what you owe and where it originated. They cannot just take you to court for an amount you have no memory of from a creditor you may or may not have owed. Some of the debt collectors only have the basics of records, not even showing the original credit agreements.
Of course you and 'Cosine' are not correct.

It is not uncommon for debt owners to file lawsuits without every dotted i or crossed t. Most debtors know that they owe the debt and don't challenge the suit. In those cases, the debt owner 'wins' without a fight. In a few cases, debtors might challenge the filing.... and the plaintiff can simply dismiss the lawsuit and refile when they get all the required documentation. Nothing illegal or improper about it at all.
 

cosine

Senior Member
Of course you and 'Cosine' are not correct.

It is not uncommon for debt owners to file lawsuits without every dotted i or crossed t. Most debtors know that they owe the debt and don't challenge the suit. In those cases, the debt owner 'wins' without a fight. In a few cases, debtors might challenge the filing.... and the plaintiff can simply dismiss the lawsuit and refile when they get all the required documentation. Nothing illegal or improper about it at all.
Now explain how it is that what I said and what you said are in conflict. Or what you can do to avoid making personal accusations is point out specifically what is in error by what someone posts, instead of making broad personal accusations and not backing them up.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Now explain how it is that what I said and what you said are in conflict. Or what you can do to avoid making personal accusations is point out specifically what is in error by what someone posts, instead of making broad personal accusations and not backing them up.
You said, "That "show her hand" comment makes me think this might be a similar case (e.g. the debt ownership trail does not, yet, lead to the party trying to collect)."
And of course, there is absolutely NOTHING to suggest your assumption is correct.
 

cosine

Senior Member
If a debt collector has a legitimate account, then there is no reason for the collector to worry about "showing their hand". They would be able to show that the debt is legitimate and that they are the legitimate collector for it. If a debt collector is reacting this way, then clearly something is wrong. Given the behaviors I have experienced, and heard about, from some debt collector (for example, lying), I have to suspect non-legitimate "accounts" are involved.
 

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