Moving out of state

[FatherInNJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey



Hi,

I live in North NJ, I'm the non-custodial parent. My son lives with his mother, in another town, still in NJ, 20 minutes away.

I am thinking to move to New York, which is just 15 minutes farther. But, it's another state.
What could be the consequences on my case, in the long term?

Me and his mother have shared custody, but we don't get along at all. She is the type of parent who would uses everything just to make the other one's life miserable.

thank you

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey



Hi,

I live in North NJ, I'm the non-custodial parent. My son lives with his mother, in another town, still in NJ, 20 minutes away.

I am thinking to move to New York, which is just 15 minutes farther. But, it's another state.
What could be the consequences on my case, in the long term?

Me and his mother have shared custody, but we don't get along at all. She is the type of parent who would uses everything just to make the other one's life miserable.

thank you

You are the noncustodial parent? Then you don't have shared physical custody. Or you would be a custodial parent. If you are a custodial parent you need to follow Baures v. Lewis, 167 N.J. 91 (2001) which says:

We have struggled to accommodate the interests of parents and children in a removal situation in our prior cases. Holder v. Polanski, 111 N.J. 344 (1988); Cooper v. Cooper, 99 N.J. 42 (1984). In so doing, we have developed something of a hybrid scheme. Although it is not based upon a presumption in favor of the custodial parent, it does recognize the identity of the interests of the custodial parent and the child, and, as a result, accords particular respect to the custodial parent's right to seek happiness and fulfillment. At the same time, it emphasizes the importance of the non-custodial parent's relationship with the child by guaranteeing regular communication and contact of a nature and quality to sustain that relationship. Further, it incorporates a variation on a best interests analysis by requiring proof that the child will not suffer from the move.

and

Historically, courts throughout the country have disfavored removal of a child from the jurisdiction after divorce. Edwin J. Terry et al., Relocation: Moving Forward or Moving Backward?, 31 Tex. Tech. L. Rev. 983, 986 (2000). Some courts continue to adhere to that view and apply a presumption against removal based on the notion that it will necessarily destroy the relationship between the non-custodial parent and the child. See White v. White, 650 A.2d 110, 113 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1994)(requiring parent to demonstrate that move will significantly improve quality of life for parent and child before allowing removal); McCalister v. Patterson, 299 S.E.2d 322, 323 (S.C. 1982)(announcing that presumption can be overcome only by showing relocation will benefit child).

It also states:

An analysis of New Jersey's removal scheme begins with N.J.S.A. 9:2-2. That act provides:

[61] When the Superior Court has jurisdiction over the custody and maintenance of the minor children of parents divorced, separated or living separate, and such children are natives of this State, or have resided five years within its limits, they shall not be removed out of its jurisdiction against their own consent, if of suitable age to signify the same, nor while under that age without the consent of both parents, unless the court, upon cause shown, shall otherwise order.

When removal is challenged under N.J.S.A. 9:2-2, we hold that to establish sufficient cause for the removal, the custodial parent initially must show that there is a real advantage to that parent in the move and that the move is not inimical to the best interests of the children. . . . It is only after the custodial parent establishes these threshold requirements that the court should consider, based on evidence presented by both parties, visitation and other factors to determine whether the custodial parent has sufficient cause to permit removal under the statute. . . .

[71] The first factor to be considered is the prospective advantages of the move in terms of its likely capacity for either maintaining or improving the general quality of life of both the custodial parent and the children. The second factor is the integrity of both the custodial parent's motives in seeking to move and the non-custodial parent's motives in seeking to restrain such a move (e.g., whether the custodial parent is motivated by a desire to defeat and frustrate the non-custodial parent's visitation rights and remove himself or herself from future visitation orders or whether the non-custodial parent is contesting the move mainly to impede the custodial parent's plans or to secure a financial advantage with respect to future support payments). And the third factor is whether, under the facts of the individual case, a realistic and reasonable visitation schedule can be reached if the move is allowed. In a given case, evidence of any of these factors may be used to militate against either the threshold showing of the custodial parent for removal, or the arguments of the non-custodial parent against removal.

[72] Since the non-custodial parent has the necessary information to demonstrate that an alternative visitation schedule is not feasible because of distance, time, or financial restraints, we place the burden on that parent to come forward with evidence that a proposed alternative visitation schedule would be impossible or so burdensome as to affect unreasonably and adversely his or her right to preserve his or her relationship with the child. [Id. at 56-58.]

Since you are a noncustodial parent you can move. If you were a custodial (joint physical custody) parent then you would have to jump through hoops above.

 

[FatherInNJ]

Thanks a lot for the answer and the quotes.

I am still quite worried for the personal interpretation a judge could give of "a parent moving to another state".
He may think "this father doesn't care that much... he's going away".

I'd be just 20 mins farther, and with better job opportunities but it still
sounds to me like there's no certainty I won't be hit by that.
And many (ignorant) people in some parts of NJ quite often consider NY as a different planet.

I don't want to create the basis for my son's mother to ask and get to take our son to another state, one day. 15 hours away, not 15 minutes.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thanks a lot for the answer and the quotes.

I am still quite worried for the personal interpretation a judge could give of "a parent moving to another state".
He may think "this father doesn't care that much... he's going away".

I'd be just 20 mins farther, and with better job opportunities but it still
sounds to me like there's no certainty I won't be hit by that.
And many (ignorant) people in some parts of NJ quite often consider NY as a different planet.

I don't want to create the basis for my son's mother to ask and get to take our son to another state, one day. 15 hours away, not 15 minutes.

If it is just 20 minutes why are you moving? Why not commute?

 

[stealth2]

If it is just 20 minutes why are you moving? Why not commute?

Yeah - that makes no sense. And before the question arises - I am VERY familiar with the area OP's talking about. There's only one reason I can think of that would make the move more attractive than staying near the kiddo.

 

[FatherInNJ]

I am VERY familiar with the area OP's talking about. There's only one reason I can think of that would make the move more attractive than staying near the kiddo.

A very smart comment, this one.

You may fall under the category I described in my previous post.

But, since you are definitely smart and are VERY familiar with the area, for sure you also know the different taxation for out-of-state workers in NY.
And you also know that 20 minutes outbound, at the time I am supposed to go to pick up my son, may mean 1 hour or more inbound, commuting for work to Manhattan in the opposite direction.

And apparently you also know me enough to exclude any other possible reason, like moving in with someone who lives in NY.

And do me a favor, don't reply with "why doesn't she move in with you in NJ".

 

[FatherInNJ]

If it is just 20 minutes why are you moving? Why not commute?

I am planning to move in with my girlfriend, who lives in NY.



thanks

 

[FatherInNJ]

Your son should be more important than girlfriend.

Has she thought about moving closer.

He IS more important.

And that's why I am here asking for advices: to avoid doing something that could hit my son's life.

And yes, we thought about her moving, but for her to commute to the place she works it'd take forever. By the way, she has a great job, while I want to find one better than the one I have.

So, thank you for your interest, but please stop asking me "why do you want to move" or worse, judging me for the idea.

The question is, what can happen to my son, in the long-term, if I move a few miles farther, to another state.

 

[Silverplum]

Quotacious!

A very smart comment, this one.

You may fall under the category I described in my previous post.

But, since you are definitely smart and are VERY familiar with the area, for sure you also know the different taxation for out-of-state workers in NY.
And you also know that 20 minutes outbound, at the time I am supposed to go to pick up my son, may mean 1 hour or more inbound, commuting for work to Manhattan in the opposite direction.

And apparently you also know me enough to exclude any other possible reason, like moving in with someone who lives in NY.

And do me a favor, don't reply with "why doesn't she move in with you in NJ".

 

[Ohiogal]

He IS more important.

And that's why I am here asking for advices: to avoid doing something that could hit my son's life.

And yes, we thought about her moving, but for her to commute to the place she works it'd take forever. By the way, she has a great job, while I want to find one better than the one I have.

So, thank you for your interest, but please stop asking me "why do you want to move" or worse, judging me for the idea.

The question is, what can happen to my son, in the long-term, if I move a few miles farther, to another state.

The court is going to ask. Your girlfriend should move to you. It could end up with mom being allowed to move out of state.

 

[txmom512]

Honestly, I'm Not from that area (obviously) but I've read about that whole New York Taxation thing. That alone would be a good enough reason for me to move!

 

[Ohiogal]

Honestly, I'm Not from that area (obviously) but I've read about that whole New York Taxation thing. That alone would be a good enough reason for me to move!

He wants to move TO New York.

 

[BL]

The court is going to ask. Your girlfriend should move to you. It could end up with mom being allowed to move out of state.

Very good point .

If you remain in NJ , NJ will retain jurisdiction because you still reside there.

If you move and Mom moves with the Child ( by approval ) Mom/child's new State would have Jurisdiction ,as neither of you reside in NJ any longer .

Also if your X would do anything to cause havoc ,She may take you to court so your GF can not be around during visits.

While NY is not too strict on the matter ,NJ might be.

 

[sipa]

He IS more important.

And that's why I am here asking for advices: to avoid doing something that could hit my son's life.

And yes, we thought about her moving, but for her to commute to the place she works it'd take forever. By the way, she has a great job, while I want to find one better than the one I have.

So, thank you for your interest, but please stop asking me "why do you want to move" or worse, judging me for the idea.

The question is, what can happen to my son, in the long-term, if I move a few miles farther, to another state.

I think we need to be alittle more open to adults moving on with their life, marriage that contains divorce is a mistake, it is what it is but it does not mean people do not have the right to move on with their lives. RESPONSIBLY!

With that being said NJ is "move away friendly" the courts are currently striving to "work with parents" who are asking to move.

OP you can not move and then expect your ex to have to stay in NJ. With that being said you could very well not move from NJ and your ex file 6 months from now to move out of state, present a decent case and have that granted her move granted.

You can't ask her to stay, but you get to go it does not work like that.

Do the best you can to work with her and make a decent longer distance parenting plan that still keeps you active in your childs life, this is a 20 minute distance.

 

[FatherInNJ]

OP you can not move and then expect your ex to have to stay in NJ. With that being said you could very well not move from NJ and your ex file 6 months from now to move out of state, present a decent case and have that granted her move granted.

Thanks.

This is a different answer from the one I got from Ohiogal at the beginning of the thread.

So let me ask, is any of you a lawyer?