Inappropriate sexual conversation between step mom and child

[shesaidwhat]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Divorce/custody in WV - resident of OH for 5 years

My 9 year old son went for an extended 5wk visit with his father over the summer. Upon return he began telling me about things that were said by both dad and step mom. Few examples: step mom said directly to him, "I hate your mother with a passion", he was told untrue things about me (i've never worked, am worthless, on welfare, etc.) he was told that santa claus and the tooth fairy aren't real (mind you, i understand that this was probably his last year believing anyway, but still) and how they aren't raising their child to believe in that stuff, etc.

He was also worked over hard as far as trying to convince him to come and live with them. Now I know that legally this isn't an option right now, as he is not of age to state preference, but he's being groomed. He was informed that at 12 years old he may decide to come and live with them if he wants to. Further, they promised him that they would get a house with an indoor pool, take him to Disney, and various other material things if he did eventually.

These things are bad enough, but my main concern is a sexual conversation that took place between step mom and child *without* father's presence and a strange comment that was made to him by her. My child told me that he was trying to tickle step mom around her neck and she told him she isn't ticklish there. Son asked where she is ticklish. Step mom said, "You can't touch me where I'm ticklish."

Some time after this Step mom had an extremely graphic sexual conversation with him. I am still in shock as to the things that came out of his mouth regarding this conversation. He says that she explained to him that he is beginning puberty (he's 9!), graphically explained 'wet dreams' to him and informed him that "cum" is going to come out of his penis (even going as far as to explain to him how that word is spelled), and explained to him what sex feels like - not what it is or the biology behind it and anatomical aspects of the body, not physical changes to the body, but actually how sex is performed and what it feels like.

I am completely outraged. I attempted to speak with my ex husband about this and he acted shocked that I would even allege such things, but stated he knew a conversation had taken place and he would ask step mom about it and get back to me. He never got back to me, instead he had step mom call. She admitted to the conversation and attempted to justify it, saying that the child said he "wanted to know all there was to know."

I am totally at a loss here as to how to handle this. My ex husband is completely passive and has continually allowed step mom to try to handle things.

What do I do?

 

[shesaidwhat]

I should have also included that I did contact CPS and report this, however, I was told that it would be (and now have confirmed) that the case was unsubstantiated and closed because there is no physical abuse and it is a case of the child's word against theirs (even though step mom didn't deny the conversation). They *did* refer the child to a social worker in order to place him in counseling though.

Should I just document this and ask for supervised visitations or what? Do I request that the child not have contact with step mom from now on? I just really don't know what to do.

Also, am I obligated to allow step mom to call me or child? My phone always has been and always will be open at any time for calls from Dad - either to discuss child with me or to talk to child, but step mom feels she has the 'right' to talk to child at any time, and quite frankly, after these incidents, I am not thinking that contact with her is in his best interest.

 

[LdiJ]

I should have also included that I did contact CPS and report this, however, I was told that it would be (and now have confirmed) that the case was unsubstantiated and closed because there is no physical abuse and it is a case of the child's word against theirs (even though step mom didn't deny the conversation). They *did* refer the child to a social worker in order to place him in counseling though.

Should I just document this and ask for supervised visitations or what? Do I request that the child not have contact with step mom from now on? I just really don't know what to do.

Also, am I obligated to allow step mom to call me or child? My phone always has been and always will be open at any time for calls from Dad - either to discuss child with me or to talk to child, but step mom feels she has the 'right' to talk to child at any time, and quite frankly, after these incidents, I am not thinking that contact with her is in his best interest.

Well, you cannot stop dad from putting stepmom on the phone if dad calls, but you certainly can refuse to accept calls from stepmom.

I would give things some time. Hopefully the contact from CPS shook up stepmom enough that she will realize that she was out of line...keep documenting anything that happens, and if it gets out of hand again, get a consult with an attorney and see what the attorney thinks.

You could also do that now if you wanted to. I am also not suggesting at this point that you hire an attorney...merely that you talk with one and see what he/she thinks about the situation.

 

[shesaidwhat]

Well, you cannot stop dad from putting stepmom on the phone if dad calls, but you certainly can refuse to accept calls from stepmom.

I would give things some time. Hopefully the contact from CPS shook up stepmom enough that she will realize that she was out of line...keep documenting anything that happens, and if it gets out of hand again, get a consult with an attorney and see what the attorney thinks.

You could also do that now if you wanted to. I am also not suggesting at this point that you hire an attorney...merely that you talk with one and see what he/she thinks about the situation.

I am coming here and relaying this after already giving some things time from previous issues. I am the CP, and until step mom came into the picture approximately 4 years ago, Dad was not a very involved individual in child's life. Step mom really pushed for Dad to begin developing relationship with child, which I thought was great in the beginning. Previous to her involvement Dad's communication and contact with child was sporadic at best (I'm talking going 6 months to a year at a time with no contact). The only court ordered visitation time is Christmas eve up to 9pm and 1 week during the summer, however over the past 4 years I have never denied a request for child to see father simply out of the desire for child to develop a relationship with him.

Child has previously been told lies and such on visits, I've asked Dad to make sure it doesn't happen again, to go through me not child for any issue he might have, I've specifically told step mom that she is not to contact me any further, for any reason, that if there is a problem or anything that needs to be discussed regarding child that Dad is more than welcome to contact me.

I reached that point because of step mom intentionally causing fights between Dad and I. Yet she continues to call me, text me, and insist that she has the 'right' to call whenever she feels and that if I refuse her that 'right' that I am keeping child from 'family'. I have consistently stated over and over again that I have no issue with Dad calling at any time, however she is not to contact me any further, because 99% of the time she does text or call it is not to speak to child, rather to talk to me.

Am I overreacting to this conversation she had with child though?!? Dad was not even present, and the level of detail and graphic nature of the conversation were just completely out of line, definitely not age or maturity level appropriate. Dad even conveyed his shock over what child was saying she said implying he had no idea what was talked about.

I don't have the resources at the moment to hire an attorney.

 

[Isis1]

well, i took a step back at your first post and thought about it. if my children's dad's girlfriend said all this, i'd be livid too. if dad said all that, i'd be shocked as well.

but here's the thing. if my children heard this from a schoolmate, the first thing i would do is damage control. correct all that my child heard by having him explain what he understood out of that conversation.

stepmom = legal stranger

schoolmate = legal stranger

they get treated the same. at least in this instance.

 

[shesaidwhat]

I definitely did damage control and clarified a lot of misinformation he was given and some things he didn't understand. The fact that he was exposed to such graphic details at 9 years old wouldn't come as such a shock if it were from an older child or teenager, but from an adult, from step mom - i find it disgusting and ignorant, and intentional on her part based on previous experiences.

Can I request that Dad refrain from leaving child alone with step mom in the future? Should I ask again that they not interfere with my relationship with child by speaking badly about me to him and lying to him? Thing is, I feel I've done what I'm supposed to do as far as saying all of this very diplomatically and in a non-confrontational way to Dad before, and it's continually gotten worse. What, legally, is recommended in cases like this? The things they've said about me, even though completely fabricated lies, have affected child's behavior and attitude towards me greatly. Not to mention his exposure to completely inappropriate sexual information at such a young age. I can't take that away from him, it's done.

 

[Proserpina]

I definitely did damage control and clarified a lot of misinformation he was given and some things he didn't understand. The fact that he was exposed to such graphic details at 9 years old wouldn't come as such a shock if it were from an older child or teenager, but from an adult, from step mom - i find it disgusting and ignorant, and intentional on her part based on previous experiences.

Can I request that Dad refrain from leaving child alone with step mom in the future? Should I ask again that they not interfere with my relationship with child by speaking badly about me to him and lying to him? Thing is, I feel I've done what I'm supposed to do as far as saying all of this very diplomatically and in a non-confrontational way to Dad before, and it's continually gotten worse. What, legally, is recommended in cases like this? The things they've said about me, even though completely fabricated lies, have affected child's behavior and attitude towards me greatly. Not to mention his exposure to completely inappropriate sexual information at such a young age. I can't take that away from him, it's done.

(disclaimer: I was raised outside of the US and I do realize that in some ways Europe is considerably more relaxed in terms of sex education for children)

Honestly? At 9 he's going to be experimenting with his own body - though ideally you or Dad would be telling him about the birds and bees (and that does include, with many parents, how it feels) from what you've said I'm not sure stepmom was out of line at all.

It does not appear to have been said with any nefarious or inappropriate intention (though it was a tad indelicate). If you're uncomfortable though you should speak with Dad about it and express that you would prefer only him or yourself to have those conversations with your son. You absolutely DO have the right to request that, although if Dad allows his wife to be included there really isn't much you can do - and if Dad thinks something is age-appropriate you're not going to be able to force him to follow your belief or opinion.

I do not see anything to justify asking that son not be left alone with step-mom.

 

[LdiJ]

(disclaimer: I was raised outside of the US and I do realize that in some ways Europe is considerably more relaxed in terms of sex education for children)

Honestly? At 9 he's going to be experimenting with his own body - though ideally you or Dad would be telling him about the birds and bees (and that does include, with many parents, how it feels) from what you've said I'm not sure stepmom was out of line at all.

It does not appear to have been said with any nefarious or inappropriate intention (though it was a tad indelicate). If you're uncomfortable though you should speak with Dad about it and express that you would prefer only him or yourself to have those conversations with your son. You absolutely DO have the right to request that, although if Dad allows his wife to be included there really isn't much you can do - and if Dad thinks something is age-appropriate you're not going to be able to force him to follow your belief or opinion.

I do not see anything to justify asking that son not be left alone with step-mom.

I do realize that Europe is considerably more relaxed on this issues than the US, however, I disagree with you. Stepmom was COMPLETELY out of line. The child is 9.

Now, do I believe that the situation means that stepmom should not be allowed alone with the child at all?...probably not, unless equally inappropriate things keep happening.

 

[Rushia]

I do realize that Europe is considerably more relaxed on this issues than the US, however, I disagree with you. Stepmom was COMPLETELY out of line. The child is 9.

Now, do I believe that the situation means that stepmom should not be allowed alone with the child at all?...probably not, unless equally inappropriate things keep happening.

I agree. I think if stepmom really felt it was time to have this talk with him, she should have kept it to "birds and bees". NOT how it feels. My son will shortly be ten and I have to have this talk with him soon and it will certainly not be telling him how sex "feels".

 

[wileybunch]

I agree. I think if stepmom really felt it was time to have this talk with him, she should have kept it to "birds and bees". NOT how it feels. My son will shortly be ten and I have to have this talk with him soon and it will certainly not be telling him how sex "feels".

I agree, too.

I do think she's overstepping her bounds, most definitely. I get that some people are more "progressive" or whatever about sex, but that doesn't cover the trashy way this person handled this and it is not HER child to decide to give a rundown on sex and what it feels like to. While I'm not one to encourage people to go back to court over "every little thing", I think it's appropriate to consult an attorney and find out what your options are. I just don't know that a family court judge will order something here that will give you what you really want, though.

I would press Dad again for his views on the situation and see if you can squeeze any more blood out of that turnip to gauge his judgment. The reality is that your child will be exposed to things according to Dad's judgment and there's much of it you won't be able to do anything about, it'll just come down to different values and morals.

 

[Proserpina]

That's why I indicated it was just me, and was in part based upon my own background. I also - perhaps foolishly - assumed that Dad actually knew about it and condoned it (which is also why I suggested OP talk to Dad - he might have genuinely thought it wasn't an issue). That was a huge error on my part and yes, I did become the ass in assume!

I do understand and respect the other opinions and answers although I still do think that if Dad allows it there's not much Mom can do about it.

(and though I don't want to stray too much - in part because it's not relevant at all really - but it did also make me curious about one thing: without going too much into it is sex ed in schools generally restricted to older children over here?)

 

[shesaidwhat]

I'm certainly not a prude regarding sex, especially when it comes to the education of my child. My point is that there is an age appropriate way to address these things with the child's maturity level in mind. Terminology comes into play here as well. I realize I gave some details, but I left many out. He was told that it feels like, "putting your penis into a tight hole". Seriously? That's appropriate for a 9 year old? And teaching a 9 year old slang terms like 'cum' instead of fluid, semen, ejaculate, etc. Am I crazy? I honestly don't see how any rational adult could think it is appropriate to speak to a child that is not their own about things like that.

As far as Dad goes, he had no idea the detail and slang that were used, and admitted so. Like I said, he acted shocked when I asked him about it, and then when he spoke with wife and found out it was true he avoided the situation and instead had step mom call - like she's repeatedly been asked not to.

 

[LdiJ]

That's why I indicated it was just me, and was in part based upon my own background. I also - perhaps foolishly - assumed that Dad actually knew about it and condoned it (which is also why I suggested OP talk to Dad - he might have genuinely thought it wasn't an issue). That was a huge error on my part and yes, I did become the ass in assume!

I do understand and respect the other opinions and answers although I still do think that if Dad allows it there's not much Mom can do about it.

(and though I don't want to stray too much - in part because it's not relevant at all really - but it did also make me curious about one thing: without going too much into it is sex ed in schools generally restricted to older children over here?)

I don't think that any school systems start it as early as 9 unless there happens to be a younger child in a class...and even when it starts, the parents have the option to "opt out" of their child attending the class.

 

[Hisbabygirl77]

I'm certainly not a prude regarding sex, especially when it comes to the education of my child. My point is that there is an age appropriate way to address these things with the child's maturity level in mind. Terminology comes into play here as well. I realize I gave some details, but I left many out. He was told that it feels like, "putting your penis into a tight hole". Seriously? That's appropriate for a 9 year old? And teaching a 9 year old slang terms like 'cum' instead of fluid, semen, ejaculate, etc. Am I crazy? I honestly don't see how any rational adult could think it is appropriate to speak to a child that is not their own about things like that.

As far as Dad goes, he had no idea the detail and slang that were used, and admitted so. Like I said, he acted shocked when I asked him about it, and then when he spoke with wife and found out it was true he avoided the situation and instead had step mom call - like she's repeatedly been asked not to.

I can see why you were upset to tell a child of that age that was completely inappropriate. Not to mention as curious as kids are now he is going to be curious about what was told to him something he may have not even thought about for 3+ years. He is way to young for a conversation of that level.

 

[Proserpina]

I'm certainly not a prude regarding sex, especially when it comes to the education of my child. My point is that there is an age appropriate way to address these things with the child's maturity level in mind. Terminology comes into play here as well. I realize I gave some details, but I left many out. He was told that it feels like, "putting your penis into a tight hole". Seriously? That's appropriate for a 9 year old? And teaching a 9 year old slang terms like 'cum' instead of fluid, semen, ejaculate, etc. Am I crazy? I honestly don't see how any rational adult could think it is appropriate to speak to a child that is not their own about things like that.

As far as Dad goes, he had no idea the detail and slang that were used, and admitted so. Like I said, he acted shocked when I asked him about it, and then when he spoke with wife and found out it was true he avoided the situation and instead had step mom call - like she's repeatedly been asked not to.

I didn't say you were a prude. And yes, I have conceded my asshat-edness in making the assumption I did (and I'll probably be wearing that ass-hat for the entire day)

We do have rational adults around the world who may sometimes use both the biological and "school yard slang" terms as part of the educational process- even with preteens. There are even pamphlets available which use both. Still, it doesn't change the bottom line. You absolutely do have the right to object. And the fact that Dad wasn't aware does change things somewhat.