understanding contempt

[mistoffolees]

Well, we went to court today. Evidently, my ex's lawyer called my lawyer on Thursday asking if we could settle, but my lawyer was out of town last week.

First of all, my ex was late. When everyone was finally there, the lawyers met briefly. They came up with an agreement.

* He pleads no contest to the 27 counts of contempt for not paying child support.
*He has 90 days to find a job. He has to submit a seek work record, applying for at least 20 jobs a month. This seek work record has to be filed with the court and my lawyer
*He has to either file a tax return or produce paperwork from the IRS regarding the payment of owed taxes.
*If he does not find work or make a child support payment by the next court date, he will go to jail.

I realize that ultimately there are many ways of avoiding paying child support, but at least I have made an attempt.

I guess he has plenty of incentive. I never heard of a judge saying 'get a job or you go to jail', particularly in today's economic climate when a lot of people are out of work involuntarily.

Sounds like you got about as much as you could hope for (maybe more than I would have expected).

 

[CourtClerk]

Well, we went to court today. Evidently, my ex's lawyer called my lawyer on Thursday asking if we could settle, but my lawyer was out of town last week.

First of all, my ex was late. When everyone was finally there, the lawyers met briefly. They came up with an agreement.

* He pleads no contest to the 27 counts of contempt for not paying child support.
*He has 90 days to find a job. He has to submit a seek work record, applying for at least 20 jobs a month. This seek work record has to be filed with the court and my lawyer
*He has to either file a tax return or produce paperwork from the IRS regarding the payment of owed taxes.
*If he does not find work or make a child support payment by the next court date, he will go to jail.

I realize that ultimately there are many ways of avoiding paying child support, but at least I have made an attempt.

That sounds like an empty threat. The judge FIRST needs to make it a criminal contempt case before anyone goes to jail.

 

[Proserpina]

I guess he has plenty of incentive. I never heard of a judge saying 'get a job or you go to jail', particularly in today's economic climate when a lot of people are out of work involuntarily.

Sounds like you got about as much as you could hope for (maybe more than I would have expected).

I couldn't agree more.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

What it really gets down to is that if the man (or is it woman) does NOT apply for 5 jobs a week, the judge can find him "willfully" disregarding a court order. Okay guys, exactly how difficult is it to apply for 5 jobs a week? Real teeth of an order would have been to apply for 20-30 jobs a week. He (or she) needs to make finding a job a full-time effort.

 

[CourtClerk]

What it really gets down to is that if the man (or is it woman) does NOT apply for 5 jobs a week, the judge can find him "willfully" disregarding a court order. Okay guys, exactly how difficult is it to apply for 5 jobs a week? Real teeth of an order would have been to apply for 20-30 jobs a week. He (or she) needs to make finding a job a full-time effort.

Agreed. Further, if he comes in with his 20 job searches a month, and says (something to the effect of) look your honor, I'm diligently looking for a job, but just can't find one! Here's my proof!

No contempt.

Further, it's harder than hell to get someone found in criminal contempt of an order. You can't walk into a family court and be hauled off to jail. The DA has to pick up the case, they have to file, he has to be arraigned.... I can go on and on and on about how this will NOT land him in jail, but you get the point.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I realize that the state of California is broke. But, I would LOVE to see the deadbeats be assigned to do some totally disgusting cleanup job for like 20 hours a week to avoid being thrown in jail. Pay them FEDERAL minimum wage and have all of it go towards their child support. The remaining 148 hours of the week would include looking for a real job, etc. Unfortunately, they would get to keep 40-45% of their net.

 

[CourtClerk]

I realize that the state of California is broke. But, I would LOVE to see the deadbeats be assigned to do some totally disgusting cleanup job for like 20 hours a week to avoid being thrown in jail.

They can't even get the welfare recipients to do it. Don't waste your breath.

Pay them FEDERAL minimum wage and have all of it go towards their child support.

Unfortunately, statute says CA pays the higher of state and federal minimum wage. State pays more... much more than federal.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I'm allowed to wish, no? Offer them a job that is sooooo awful that they WANT to get a job doing something else.

Horse manure
Cow manure
picking fruits/veggies in the hot sun

 

[torimac]

I am not sure how the judge will enforce the 'get a job or go to jail'. Hopefully it will not come to that.

While I know that the economy is an issue now (my company is downsizing and I will be out of work in two weeks, so I know it first hand), he has not had a job in over three years. Not even Walmart or McDonald's. Nothing. So, personally, I don't find that to be much of an excuse.

He is in Nevada, also a hard hit state, but he is within driving distance of three major cities.

Myself, I already have plans on how to deal with the lack of job. I am moving to where there are jobs. I will take my settlement pay from my current job, move, pay six months rent in advance and find a new job. Of course, my parents are not going to pay all my expenses and I am responsible for other people (daughter), so I don't get to take any real time off from work.

I am willing to bet that if his parent had not supported him for the past three years (he lives with them and they buy every thing he needs and some of what he wants), he would have found a job. If you have a roof over your head, food in your gut and your WOW and Internet account is paid for, you have no incentive to get a job. Now the judge has given him one.

CC- this was not heard in family court. It was heard in criminal court. There was an arraignment to which he pled not guilty. Yesterday, he pled no contest to 27 counts of contempt of court.

 

[torimac]

question about debt...

When we divorced, we had some debt. This was, of course, to be divided evenly between us. There were some "personal" loans from people and back taxes that needed to be paid.

I have been slowly chipping away at the personal loans and paid half of the back taxes. Now the IRS wants the rest of their money.

My ex has stated that he will not pay the back taxes. He has a letter of deferral from the IRS which he thinks means he does not have to pay any money at all. The IRS could care less who pays, so long as it is paid.

All of this is chipping away at my credit, so I am thinking of paying the IRS bill. According to the divorce decree, he needs to pay half. Am I right in thinking I could press the issue in court for him to pay me back if I pay the bill? Can I charge interest on the amount I paid (that would be his half), both for the personal loans and the IRS bill? For instance, if the IRS bill is $10k, can I charge him interest on the $5k he should have paid until he pays me back?

 

[mistoffolees]

When we divorced, we had some debt. This was, of course, to be divided evenly between us. There were some "personal" loans from people and back taxes that needed to be paid.

I have been slowly chipping away at the personal loans and paid half of the back taxes. Now the IRS wants the rest of their money.

My ex has stated that he will not pay the back taxes. He has a letter of deferral from the IRS which he thinks means he does not have to pay any money at all. The IRS could care less who pays, so long as it is paid.

All of this is chipping away at my credit, so I am thinking of paying the IRS bill. According to the divorce decree, he needs to pay half. Am I right in thinking I could press the issue in court for him to pay me back if I pay the bill? Can I charge interest on the amount I paid (that would be his half), both for the personal loans and the IRS bill? For instance, if the IRS bill is $10k, can I charge him interest on the $5k he should have paid until he pays me back?

If the court order says he's supposed to pay half and you are forced to pay it to protect your credit rating, you can certainly go back to court to force him to pay his half. You can ask the court to order him to pay interest, as well.

HOWEVER, be sure that the taxes really need to be paid. If he has a document saying that they don't need to be paid, then he wouldn't have to reimburse you - and you'd end up having to fight with the IRS to get your money back. I'd do everything you can to find out what the letter from the IRS says. If the taxes were filed jointly, you have every right to get a copy. If they were filed separately, you don't have to pay any taxes in his name and a letter to him would not address your tax liability.

 

[torimac]

filed jointly

The taxes were filed jointly. I have not seen his paper, but the IRS person said that he has deferred payment due to lack of employment.

The letter I just received today says "notice of intent to levy". So, at this point, it needs to be paid to protect my credit.

 

[mistoffolees]

The taxes were filed jointly. I have not seen his paper, but the IRS person said that he has deferred payment due to lack of employment.

The letter I just received today says "notice of intent to levy". So, at this point, it needs to be paid to protect my credit.

Deferred payment won't get him off the hook. Since your credit is in danger, you should be able to collect 1/2 from him if you have to pay it now. It's simply a matter of WHEN you'll be able to collect, not so much IF.

 

[LdiJ]

The taxes were filed jointly. I have not seen his paper, but the IRS person said that he has deferred payment due to lack of employment.

The letter I just received today says "notice of intent to levy". So, at this point, it needs to be paid to protect my credit.

I am a tax professional and I will give you a hint on dealing with this that may end up with him paying at least part of what he owes.

If you set up a payment plan with the IRS, and then arrange your withholding so that you have only a minimal refund, at most, then the IRS will not levy you, and will take any tax refunds you may have towards payment at well. However, despite the fact that he has a "deferral" they will ALSO take any refunds that he may have in the future as well, until the debt is paid off.

The IRS will want to see the debt paid off within 4 years, so you can have a fairly minimal payment, with some opportunities for him to have to pay off part of it from future refunds.

 

[torimac]

Latest Update

Well, my ex has a job-sort of. He is an independent contractor working for a contract company that contracts with HP. He bills them the hours (1099), so there is no paycheck to attach for support, so he has bypassed regular payments. Of course, this may not be regular, 40-hour a week work. No idea, and frankly none of my business.
He did make one payment of $50 in the beginning of July. He is now 30k in arrears.

I have completed my move to another state and hope to have a new job soon. Thanks to the move, I should be able to live on unemployment. If all else fails, I can substitute teach while continuing to finish my degree. I have had a few interviews, which is more than what happened in CA.

I ended up paying the tax bill to save my credit. At the next hearing in CA, I will present him with a bill of all of the debt I have paid. According to my lawyer, once the change of venue goes through, I should be able to file for contempt again if need be. But I first need to let him know how much of the bill is his and give him the option to pay.

In six weeks, we go back to court to see what the judge says about his 'job'.