Faith based treatment as punishment Legal?

[ed rattlehead]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina. I was convicted of D.W.I. and I was curious as a non-believer am I to be subjected to and conform to the court ordered treatment as a part of my punishment which can be lengthened if I do not accept the notion of a "higher power"? I can fake it and lie but I was hoping this practice was somehow unconstitutional.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[cbg]

Sorry, but no. The "higher power" is not exclusively limited to a deity.

 

[TheGeekess]

Sorry, but no. The "higher power" is not exclusively limited to a deity.

Atheism in the Twelve Step Movement

 

[tranquility]

While there is a Constitutional argument, this is not the case.

 

[CdwJava]

You can also try to seek out another program that you can attend that has been approved by the agency requiring it.

You can also refuse any recovery program and then suck up the consequences.

When you learn to understand the 12-step process, it is neither Christian, nor Jewish, nor any particular faith. The "higher power" can be an allegory to an internal well of strength if you want it to be. The key is to accepting that you cannot solve your problem on your own. If you do not believe that, then a 12-step program probably is not for you anyway. But, since most people attend these programs to avoid the consequences of a criminal act and not out of any true belief, perhaps you can just go with the flow and jump through the required hoops to get out of trouble like so many others do.

Hopefully you will not repeat the same crime next time.

 

[ed rattlehead]

Thanks to all

However, I don't think I really got an answer. From all I could see it was a bunch of people afraid to take on a man made deity in court. I guess god, ala, etc.., does conquer all. I really find it hard to fathom that seemingly intelligent people can actually believe that an all loving and perfect god would create his own arch nemesis, etc etc.. Afraid of the empty skies are we?

 

[Taper420]

However, I don't think I really got an answer. From all I could see it was a bunch of people afraid to take on a man made deity in court. I guess god, ala, etc.., does conquer all. I really find it hard to fathom that seemingly intelligent people can actually believe that an all loving and perfect god would create his own arch nemesis, etc etc.. Afraid of the empty skies are we?

I'm with ya on that one, I think it's all a bunch of BS. I just believe in me. But for the sake of simplicity, I would feign belief in whatever program they have you in so you can get this behind you and move on.

 

[commentator]

Exactly, it appears this poster, like so many people who do not wish to accept ANY authority over their life, has pulled out this big very common excuse of "this being forced to attend treatment program meetings with a religious flavor violates my right to be an atheist."

But all that is being asked is that this person submit to a Higher Authority, as in the court which is saying, "Attend that meeting program or take your happy un-submitted self to jail!" You definitely have a choice.

You won't get far in the court system saying you have the right to insist you don't have to submit to a higher power of any kind. The court system itself, the law, is a higher power. The twelve step programs are very conscientious to identify themselves as non-religious programs, unless otherwise designated. You could if really motivated, find meetings that do not require any faith commitments. Or you and your convictions can take the alternative.

 

[DaffyDuck]

However, I don't think I really got an answer.

Yeah, welcome to this forum. I know the following won't answer your constitutionality questions but it might be helpful:

S.O.S. (non-faith-based drug/alcohol) might be an option they are simply not aware of. Maybe you could bring it up. Not anywhere near as popular as AA, so who knows.

Dunno if you have heard of them or not but here is their info:
"http://www.sossobriety.org"
"http://www.sossobriety.org/meetings/states.htm"

Good luck.

P.S. Curious about the wording of you having to accept a "higher power"?

Exactly, it appears this poster, like so many people who do not wish to accept ANY authority over their life, has pulled out this big very common excuse of "this being forced to attend treatment program meetings with a religious flavor violates my right to be an atheist." But all that is being asked is that this person submit to a Higher Authority, as in the court which is saying, "Attend that meeting program or take your happy un-submitted self to jail!" You definitely have a choice.

My boss is a higher authority. His boss is. So in that case, I guess he already submits to a higher authority. Taxes? You obey stop signs? Eh, somehow, I get the feeling that the court was actually referring to God, not just any higher authority.

 

[Zigner]

Eh, somehow, I get the feeling that the court was actually referring to God, not just any higher authority.

God was not a party to the action...

 

[Dave1952]

Were you represented by counsel for this DWI? Did you take a test (court-approved) which found you to be an alcoholic prior to your sentencing? Were you sentenced to a particular treatment program or were you given a list of programs and counselors?
Why do you view this program as punishment? It's meant to cure your inability to handle alcohol.

Good luck

 

[eerelations]

OP, I know this is totally off topic, but I do love your screen name. Very silly off the wall - a real giggle. Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[CdwJava]

However, I don't think I really got an answer. From all I could see it was a bunch of people afraid to take on a man made deity in court. I guess god, ala, etc.., does conquer all. I really find it hard to fathom that seemingly intelligent people can actually believe that an all loving and perfect god would create his own arch nemesis, etc etc.. Afraid of the empty skies are we?

Clearly you don't understand about faith and religion - specifically the Christian faith. Pity that.

And you did get an answer to your legal question. You can either accept the program, find an acceptable alternative, or suck up the punishment for not attending a program.

 

[BOR]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina. I was convicted of D.W.I. and I was curious as a non-believer am I to be subjected to and conform to the court ordered treatment as a part of my punishment which can be lengthened if I do not accept the notion of a "higher power"? I can fake it and lie but I was hoping this practice was somehow unconstitutional.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Not to be repetitive, but you have little merit here, some, but not really arguable.

Now, if you were given a choice to attend any house of worship for consideration of sentence etc., regardless of faith, or some similar sanction, then that would be a violation of the Free Exercise clause.

Let's assume "Higher Power" meant God, although it was not said, GOD is secular in nature as far as the 1st AM is concerned.

You do NOT have to recognize any power. If the terms are rescinded due to your failure to abide by the dictates, then argue the 1st.