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Put everything in partner's name, now getting divorce

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tinker925

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Just hoping for feedback....

I had medical bills out the ying yang that went on my credit.... (talking hundreds of thousands of dollars). SO we put everything in my spouses name and went on building our life... I found the house and put in half (or more than half) the money for the mortgage and repairs, ect. But the house is NOT in my name, but was bought four years AFTER we were married... No kids involved...

Going thru a divorce and trying to make it as civil as possible... lost my job and am on unemployment (cannot qualify to even rent right now because of it) and the only thing we can do if stay living together... I arranged a refi and I got the house payment down from $2500 to $1600..... we both have moved on... obviously because of the market we cannot sell right now.

My ex tells me because my name is not on the loan that I will have to get out ande that I have no claims on the house. Is this true?
 


Antigone*

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Just hoping for feedback....

I had medical bills out the ying yang that went on my credit.... (talking hundreds of thousands of dollars). SO we put everything in my spouses name and went on building our life... I found the house and put in half (or more than half) the money for the mortgage and repairs, ect. But the house is NOT in my name, but was bought four years AFTER we were married... No kids involved...

Going thru a divorce and trying to make it as civil as possible... lost my job and am on unemployment (cannot qualify to even rent right now because of it) and the only thing we can do if stay living together... I arranged a refi and I got the house payment down from $2500 to $1600..... we both have moved on... obviously because of the market we cannot sell right now.

My ex tells me because my name is not on the loan that I will have to get out ande that I have no claims on the house. Is this true?

Rule # 1 ~ Never listen to your soon-to-be ex-spouse.

Good think you live in California. This is a community property State. You get to share in all the marital assets and all the marital debt.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
As long as you are married, all assets and debts that you aquire, save from a few exceptions such as inheritence, belong to both of you equally.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
As long as you are married, all assets and debts that you aquire, save from a few exceptions such as inheritence, belong to both of you equally.
Of course, it won't matter to OP. If he has hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debt, they will likely seize any cash he gets out of the marriage, anyway.

One other thing - OP, your stbx can not throw you out of the house. It is the marital home and you can stay there until a judge orders otherwise.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
I think the medical bills are OP's. But of course if they were incurred during the marriage, they are half his.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
I am uncertain as to the knowledge of California community property shown on this thread so far. What I would say is that the OP needs an attorney.

Why? Title is presumptive. And, when the husband transferred ownership of the house to wife or allowed her to put her name on it on purchase, this is the written evidence (deed) the law required for transmutation. The OP gave it to the wife. The presumption is a gift was the purpose. The husband will be unable to overcome this presumption because his goal was to give the property to wife to avoid his own ownership and to avoid paying his lawful debt. The presumption is the only thing the OP can prove.

The house is wife's separate property.

The community contributed to the separate property. Because of the refinance, the calculation may be a little difficult to know how much. Also, the property is upside down. Usually the argument is over equity, here there is none.

Now, when the medical debtors come calling, they may try to unwind the gift as it was in contemplation and to avoid paying a debt. This may be a fraudulent transfer. OP does not have standing on this, only the creditors might. That is path one.

The second is that community property is not the same as marital property. Each owns all of the community property until a death or divorce reduces it to half. For the OP's debt (Absent some limitations like taking a lien on the family home or BK considerations or the medical debt was prior to 1985.) creditors can claim all of the OP's separate property and ALL of the OP's community property for the separate debt obtained before marriage. (Except for the wages of a spouse kept in a separate account and never commingled.)
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
How is that possible? The home was purchased during the marriage, with marital funds contributed by both. It should belong to both of them regardless of whose actual name is on the title...it seems obvious that it was only for credit purposes that one name was excluded, they both lived there and maintained the house, so I don't see anything indicating it was supposed to be a gift.

We also don't know whether OP is husband or wife, unless I missed something, I don't think they state.
 

tinker925

Junior Member
I am the wife... :)

This was a 9 year marriage.... we have been in the house 6 years, this is our second home together.

We listed the property in my spouses name only because of my bad credit due to the medical bills. My medical bills (I had a small aneurysm that had to be clipped- it was one incident, I didn't just not want to pay that bill, but it was insane the costs incurred) have dropped off my credit report as of about four years ago... and as far as I know they were written off as uncollectable.
 
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tranquility

Senior Member
It should belong to both of them regardless of whose actual name is on the title...it seems obvious that it was only for credit purposes that one name was excluded, they both lived there and maintained the house, so I don't see anything indicating it was supposed to be a gift.
I claim transmutation. "For credit purposes"? We are allowed to materially misrepresent things if that gives us a benefit?

I would love to see if the spouse can prove the OP told anyone (including creditors) the property was not his. I'd also love to see the original loan and purchase documents in this age of community property with right of survivorship designation on a deed. How did the spouse take the property? Were there any gift letters for the down payment or claims it came from separate property in the beginning? Maybe a quitclaim by the OP on the property? Isn't that the way such loans usually work?

While there is a fact question as to if there is an explicit statement to transmute, the OP's intent and goal was to transmute.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
Putting a mortgage in the spouse's name with better credit is not material misrepresentation, it is perfectly legal. Only that spouse's income and credit will be considered for the application. My DH and I had to do that, because I was laid off 2 weeks before we were set to close on our house and we had to redo everything with just his info.

It does not, of course, preclude BOTH spouses from being listed on the title/deed, but that's a different matter. My name IS on the title to our house. Since it's community property, that part shouldn't matter anyway.

Because of community property, it's unlikely that the un-named spouse would successfully be able to protect the asset from his/her creditors if they were to go after it. If that was the goal of keeping that name off the deed, I don't think it would work.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
Putting the mortgage AND TITLE in a spouse's name when there is a creditor out there looking for money is a fraudulent transfer. This is not a credit score issue, this is an avoiding paying what you owe issue. The OP's INTENT and ACTIONS were to get the stuff out of his name, to transmute it to spouse. (When the OP says everything in spouse's name, I assume they mean everything and not just the mortgage.)
My name IS on the title to our house. Since it's community property, that part shouldn't matter anyway.
Yet, it does--legally. What is the difference between a property held jointly by both spouses and is joint tennant with right of survivorship or community property with right of survivorship? There is a large legal difference between the two. Now we're saying that intending and not putting on the spouse's name on title has no legal meaning because of community property?
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
Putting the mortgage AND TITLE in a spouse's name when there is a creditor out there looking for money is a fraudulent transfer. This is not a credit score issue, this is an avoiding paying what you owe issue. The OP's INTENT and ACTIONS were to get the stuff out of his name, to transmute it to spouse. (When the OP says everything in spouse's name, I assume they mean everything and not just the mortgage.)
Yet, it does--legally. What is the difference between a property held jointly by both spouses and is joint tennant with right of survivorship or community property with right of survivorship? There is a large legal difference between the two. Now we're saying that intending and not putting on the spouse's name on title has no legal meaning because of community property?
I agree with the bolded.
 

tinker925

Junior Member
Hym... its interesting to read what others feel my intent was.... :)

My credit was destroyed by the medical bills that I occurred over an emergency in one day. We opted to not have me on the loan to get better financing it just never dawned on me that I should or could be added to the title as I was not on the loan. No where, No Way did I ever pay into the house and pay for a new deck and new bathroom ever as a "gift" to my ex spouse.

I guess its debatable, AS to what the California courts will assume was my intent?

tranquility, is your experience in California? I do appreciate all of you and your insights
 

tranquility

Senior Member
I guess its debatable, AS to what the California courts will assume was my intent?
1. Title is presumptive of ownership.

2. Community property is the presumption of ownership of property acquired during marriage.

#1 will not be overcome by the presumption of #2. #1 CAN be overcome by facts which indicate the property is community. Facts like who paid for the property, where the mortgage came from and the source of funds put into the property.

We have varying periods of time here. One is the acquisition of the property up front and two is the changes in ownership after that point based on mortgage paydown and capital improvements.

At acquisition, I suspect you signed something, even though you are not on title or the mortgage. You signed a quitclaim, a letter to the bank indicating you had no right to the money used as the down payment, something. The reason is that there could be a problem in enforcing a deed of trust against a property that was purchased by two owners where only one obtained the underlying loan. If there is something here showing your written intent, you are done.

If not, the main case (Look at the cite and track cases nearer to your facts--it requires lots of reading.) would be the Estate of MacDonald, 51 Cal.3d 262, to determine if there were a transmutation. A deed alone would not do it, it takes more.
Civil Code section 5110.730, subdivision (a) (section 5110.730 (a)) provides: "A transmutation of real or personal property is not valid unless made in writing by an express declaration that is made, joined in, consented to, or accepted by the spouse whose interest in the property is adversely affected."

In this case we are asked to decide what type of writing is necessary to satisfy the statute's requirements. In our view, section 5110.730 (a) must be construed to preclude reference to extrinsic evidence in the proof of transmutations. Accordingly, we conclude a writing is not an "express declaration" for the purposes of section 5110.730 (a) unless it contains language which expressly states that a change in the characterization or ownership of the property is being made. thus, we affirm the judgment of the Court of Appeal.
saying:
It thus appears from an examination of the Commission report that section 5110.730 (a) was intended to remedy problems which arose when courts found transmutations on the basis of evidence the Legislature considered unreliable. To remedy these problems the Legislature decided that proof of transmutation should henceforth be in writing, and therefore enacted the writing requirement of section 5110.730 (a).
First the good news:
In our view, the Legislature cannot have intended that any signed writing whatsoever by the adversely affected spouse would suffice to meet the requirements of section 5110.730 (a). First, to so construe that statute would render mere surplusage all the language following the words "unless made [51 Cal.3d 270] in writing," including the phrase "an express declaration." A construction rendering some words surplusage is to be avoided. (People v. Black (1982) 32 Cal.3d 1, 5 [184 Cal.Rptr. 454, 648 P.2d 104]; Watkins v. Real Estate Commissioner (1960) 182 Cal.App.2d 397, 400 [6 Cal.Rptr. 191].) Second, as respondent acknowledges, some of the "easy transmutation" cases which section 5110.730 was intended to overturn involved nonoral conduct or signed writings.fn. 6 Therefore, it seems reasonable to assume that the Legislature intended section 5110.730 (a) to invalidate some claimed transmutations even though some form of writing existed.
Now the bad (Keep in mind the case was over a transmutation from separate to community, the reverse of ours.):
Thus, just as section 5110.730 (a) requires an "express declaration" for a valid transmutation, section 683 requires that the creation of a joint tenancy be "expressly declared." Unlike section 5110.730 (a), however, section 683 explains what the express declaration it calls for must include. Specifically, section 683 requires that an express declaration creating a joint tenancy [51 Cal.3d 272] must, "in the transfer," declare the interest being transferred "to be a joint tenancy." (Civ. Code, § 683, subd. (a).) Section 683 thus ensures that a court need not look beyond the face of a proffered writing to determine whether its writer intended to create a joint tenancy. (Bennett, supra, 33 Cal.2d at p. 699.)

Following the approach elucidated in Bennett, we conclude that a writing signed by the adversely affected spouse is not an "express declaration" for the purposes of section 5110.730 (a) unless it contains language which expressly states that the characterization or ownership of the property is being changed.
And, the worse:
[2c] We do not hold that section 5110.730 (a) requires use of the term "transmutation" or any other particular locution. Although a writing sufficient to satisfy the "express declaration" requirement of section 5110.730 (a) might very well contain the words "transmutation," "community property," or "separate property," it need not. For example, the paragraph signed by decedent here would have been sufficient if it had included an additional sentence reading: "I give to the account holder any interest I have in the funds deposited in this account."fn. 9
How was title held? What does the deed say?
 

tranquility

Senior Member
To calculate for community ownership of a property if found to be separate, requires numbers, facts and/or a law review article.
 

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