Legal Advice: Domain Name (website) owner and hosting owner differences

[Nategrey]

I have owned the domain name for several years. A staff member joined because he liked my website, and we became friends over the past few years.

At a time when I became unemployed, he moved the website content to a hosting server under his name and he pays the monthly bills. I pointed the domain name to the new nameserver.

A few years go by. I still have zero access to the hosting server nor the Cpanel to make backups myself (it's my 10-year worth website content) except for the wordpress admin panel where I post daily news, articles, reviews and interviews.

He took it upon himself to create a Facebook page and a Twitter page for my domain name (website). I have access as a guest to post in both, but it's just a matter of un-guesting me to take full control of those if he wished.

Both the Facebook and Twitter pages have reached several thousands of fans who visit my domain name (website).

Last night he asked he wanted to buy the domain name from me. This rose up RED flags all over the place in my mind. I can no longer trust "my" friend. It's just a matter of time. If he took this bold step to wish to buy the domain name, if I decline either now or at a later time in the future he might try to steal the website content, or the facebook/twitter accounts.

Is there a legal way to make him transfer the hosting server account to my name so that I pay the monthly bills? It's my website content in that server. He could remove my domain name and insert his domain name, change the logos and basically take over my website content.

Is there a legal way to give me ownership (username/password) of the facebook/twitter pages using my domain name and followers?

Note: He is been able to pay the hosting server because I gave him control over the top ad banner, and a square banner through a mutual written agreement over online chat. So the revenue comes from my domain name (website) visitors.

 

[quincy]

I have owned the domain name for several years. A staff member joined because he liked my website, and we became friends over the past few years.

At a time when I became unemployed, he moved the website content to a hosting server under his name and he pays the monthly bills. I pointed the domain name to the new nameserver.

A few years go by. I still have zero access to the hosting server nor the Cpanel to make backups myself (it's my 10-year worth website content) except for the wordpress admin panel where I post daily news, articles, reviews and interviews.

He took it upon himself to create a Facebook page and a Twitter page for my domain name (website). I have access as a guest to post in both, but it's just a matter of un-guesting me to take full control of those if he wished.

Both the Facebook and Twitter pages have reached several thousands of fans who visit my domain name (website).

Last night he asked he wanted to buy the domain name from me. This rose up RED flags all over the place in my mind. I can no longer trust "my" friend. It's just a matter of time. If he took this bold step to wish to buy the domain name, if I decline either now or at a later time in the future he might try to steal the website content, or the facebook/twitter accounts.

Is there a legal way to make him transfer the hosting server account to my name so that I pay the monthly bills? It's my website content in that server. He could remove my domain name and insert his domain name, change the logos and basically take over my website content.

Is there a legal way to give me ownership (username/password) of the facebook/twitter pages using my domain name and followers?

Note: He is been able to pay the hosting server because I gave him control over the top ad banner, and a square banner through a mutual written agreement over online chat. So the revenue comes from my domain name (website) visitors.

I suggest you have a written agreement drawn up (better late than never) that outlines all ownership rights and covers all terms of your partnership, and have it signed by both you and your friend.

It is best to go over your current business arrangement and all aspects of your website with an attorney in your area, to ensure that this agreement covers all that it needs to cover, should your friendship sour and your partnership dissolve. You should do all of this soon, before what you fear happens and you find you must resolve the matter in court.

Good luck.

 

[Nategrey]

Thanks for your reply. In my case, he is doing this when I am most vulnerable: I'm unemployed, I'm disabled without the benefits, and I live in a shelter for the homeless.

He knows all this, and he also knows I am waiting for the disability benefits decision which is a maybe/maybe not chance. I think he decided to play his move at this timing.

My options in legal terms are narrow in terms of costing legal services. This will sound crazy, but ... Are there lawyers who agree to represent you if they think I have a winning shot in court, and request the judge to make this guy pay for my legal services due to my unemployment / homeless status?

Of course, I'd go legal mode only if he refuses to return control of the website content (or the third-party hosting server service). Otherwise, that's kidnapping my intellectual property sorta.

 

[quincy]

You are more likely to find free legal assistance to help you draft up a "partnership" agreement with your friend than you are likely to find free legal assistance in handling an Intellectual Property action.

It is important, especially if you suspect your friend intends to be unfriendly in the future, to have an attorney get both of you to sign an agreement outlining your rights and your friend's rights. The agreement should also detail how matters should be handled if you two decide to dissolve your connection.

From what you have written, it appears that currently you and your friend are operating as partners. Without a written agreement saying anything to the contrary, you and your friend would be looked at by a court as equal owners of all that the website business entails.

But you do not want the matter winding up in court, if it is at all possible to avoid a lawsuit.

Legal actions are costly and the decisions made in court do not always go the way you want them to. It is much better to work things out before a lot of money is spent and a court gets involved.

I suggest you check out free legal aid clinics in your area, for help in drafting an agreement suitable for your situation. If you are staying in a homeless shelter, the shelter workers are probably aware of free legal resources available in your area.

Good luck, Nategrey.

 

[Nategrey]

I really appreciate your feedback.

It's been a very harsh day for me. Slept about 3 hours. This hit me really hard.

Not sure if I mentioned it earlier: I had been operating my website all by myself for years. I worked at a bigger site. The owners had invited me to work for them based on my work around the mutual community. The owners hosted my website free of charge as a courtesy.

So I met this guy in an event. I knew about the website he was staff at, and he liked my website. Same big community with several fansites.

Originally he approached me because he wasn't comfortable as staff of that big network, and loved what I was doing at my website. He complained the owner of his network didn't pay them flight and hotel costs to attend the events/conferences. Also that he had to go through a bunch of editors to authorize his articles before he could even see it live/public.

I was not looking for a staff member, and I couldn't afford one. Time went by, and he suggested I should quit my paid job with the network I worked for because with him as volunteer staff member he could make for me more money than what they were paying me. He is a code programmer for a living in his day job, and posts news about the community for fun in the evening. They were starting to pay me a few weeks late than the regular payday at the time.

The original arrangement was -- he could post news/articles/etc without my supervision (no editor pestering him). He would handle the top banner, and the square banner on the right-menu. I write the same articles I always write which is what brings the traffic. Remember -- He said he could get the advertising to generate me more than what the network I worked at paid me. That never happened.

He is a code programmer. He never coded any script or database that could bring in more traffic and more importantly -- traffic that would love to come back to use the tools. Right there he didn't fulfill the agreement.

Other areas of the agreement: I would help him cover flight and hotel for the yearly or bi-yearly event/conference he loved to visit.

When I left the network I worked for -- remember, they were hosting my website as a courtesy. So the very same day we were moving my website content (database backup) he fails to tell me his friend was going to pay for the new hosting server. Created the account under her name, and she paid a whooping full-year hosting upfront in advance. He asked me to point the domain name to that nameserver. I'm like .... whoa? when was this part of the agreement? The server isn't under my name. I don't pay it either and I'm forced into it because she paid a full-year already? Ok -- I let that one slip under the rug (big mistake).

So now I was into a three-way partnership unwillingly. She calls the shots when it comes to any new advertising proposals I see in my email inbox. I need her authorization and approval ...

Again this was not part of the original agreement.

1. Ad revenue never met what he agreed to bring
2. Never generated any coding of databases to bring more traffic
3. Brought in a bossy third-party partner who has a husband earning above $500,000 a year.
4. He creates a Facebook and Twitter page for my domain name. Wait -- he didn't ask me to create the social network pages myself under my account? My 10-year old traffic obviously subscribed with all the giveaways of beta keys granted to me through [my] registered fansite status.
5. A few months ago he asked me to give up leadership of the registered fansite, so that he is in continuous contact with the public relations and viceversa -- instead of me. They give him loads of products to giveaway, beta keys, free event tickets upgraded to press badge ($125 value).
6. He launches a YouTube channel with a videocast production using my domain name title and logo. I have never talked to the host and he hasnt introduced him to me. He writes the videocast script, pays $120 a month to cost the videocast webshow. Pays for it a whole year out of his pocket -- heck I even offered to pay half of it when it launched. He declined because this was his personal project using my visitors of course and my website logo and name.

Now he tells me he is been thinking for [a year or two] about offering me to purchase my domain name. Whoa? This is the time frame when he asked me to leave my paid-job? He planned this all along?

The advertising banners he controls don't generate enough for him to pay the YouTube webshow, and other stuff so he wants a unified advertising revenue (his and mine). When did I ask him to launch a webshow in the first place? An expensive one by the way.

I'm so screwed. Now he says he doesn't feel like working free to build databases and tools that visitors can use on a daily basis to generate traffic, that he can do all these things he envisions might generate traffic [IF] I sell him my domain name for $2500 because otherwise he would be working his butt for free. And he tells me -- Oh but, don't worry ... you can stay as staff member writing the same articles you write, you keep your affiliate IDs as they are. Wait, where did the unified revenue excuse went to?

With something like this -- first, I discover I never had a friend. I was a dumb [insert-insult-here].

My fears:

1. Now that I declined to sell he can hijack my 10-year worth content if he wished. He can unplug my domain name and pop in his own domain name. Time is ticking.
2. All those thousands of Facebook/Twitter followers who subscribed because they were my website's direct traffic: He could unguest me so I can't post, and ask the followers to visit his new domain name if he creates one.
3. Did I mention the bossy third-party partner he put in the throne with a husband earning above $500,000 a year? Yea. "My Fears" above should be in bold text.

 

[quincy]

I really appreciate your feedback.

It's been a very harsh day for me. Slept about 3 hours. This hit me really hard.

Not sure if I mentioned it earlier: I had been operating my website all by myself for years. I worked at a bigger site. The owners had invited me to work for them based on my work around the mutual community. The owners hosted my website free of charge as a courtesy.

So I met this guy in an event. I knew about the website he was staff at, and he liked my website. Same big community with several fansites.

Originally he approached me because he wasn't comfortable as staff of that big network, and loved what I was doing at my website. He complained the owner of his network didn't pay them flight and hotel costs to attend the events/conferences. Also that he had to go through a bunch of editors to authorize his articles before he could even see it live/public.

I was not looking for a staff member, and I couldn't afford one. Time went by, and he suggested I should quit my paid job with the network I worked for because with him as volunteer staff member he could make for me more money than what they were paying me. He is a code programmer for a living in his day job, and posts news about the community for fun in the evening. They were starting to pay me a few weeks late than the regular payday at the time.

The original arrangement was -- he could post news/articles/etc without my supervision (no editor pestering him). He would handle the top banner, and the square banner on the right-menu. I write the same articles I always write which is what brings the traffic. Remember -- He said he could get the advertising to generate me more than what the network I worked at paid me. That never happened.

He is a code programmer. He never coded any script or database that could bring in more traffic and more importantly -- traffic that would love to come back to use the tools. Right there he didn't fulfill the agreement.

Other areas of the agreement: I would help him cover flight and hotel for the yearly or bi-yearly event/conference he loved to visit.

When I left the network I worked for -- remember, they were hosting my website as a courtesy. So the very same day we were moving my website content (database backup) he fails to tell me his friend was going to pay for the new hosting server. Created the account under her name, and she paid a whooping full-year hosting upfront in advance. He asked me to point the domain name to that nameserver. I'm like .... whoa? when was this part of the agreement? The server isn't under my name. I don't pay it either and I'm forced into it because she paid a full-year already? Ok -- I let that one slip under the rug (big mistake).

So now I was into a three-way partnership unwillingly. She calls the shots when it comes to any new advertising proposals I see in my email inbox.

Again this was not part of the original agreement.

1. Ad revenue never met what he agreed to bring
2. Never generated any coding of databases to bring more traffic
3. Brought in a bossy third-party partner who has a husband earning above $500,000 a year.
4. He creates a Facebook and Twitter page for my domain name. Wait -- he didn't ask me to create the social network pages myself under my account? My 10-year old traffic obviously subscribed with all the giveaways of beta keys granted to me through [my] registered fansite status.
5. A few months ago he asked me to give up leadership of the registered fansite, so that he is in continuous contact with the public relations and viceversa -- instead of me. They give him loads of products to giveaway, beta keys, free event tickets upgraded to press badge ($125 value).
6. He launches a YouTube channel with a videocast production using my domain name title and logo. I have never talked to the host and he hasnt introduced him to me. He writes the videocast script, pays $120 a month to cost the videocast webshow. Pays for it a whole year out of his pocket -- heck I even offered to pay half of it when it launched. He declined because this was his personal project using my visitors of course and my website logo and name.

Now he tells me he is been thinking for [a year or two] about offering me to purchase my domain name. Whoa? This is the time frame when he asked me to leave my paid-job? He planned this all along?

The advertising banners he controls don't generate enough for him to pay the YouTube webshow, and other stuff so he wants a unified advertising revenue (his and mine). When did I ask him to launch a webshow in the first place? An expensive one by the way.

I'm so screwed. Now he says he doesn't feel like working free to build databases and tools that visitors can use on a daily basis to generate traffic, that he can do all these things he envisions might generate traffic [IF] I sell him my domain name for $2500 because otherwise he would be working his butt for free. And he tells me -- Oh but, don't worry ... you can stay as staff member writing the same articles you write, you keep your affiliate IDs as they are. Wait, where did the unified revenue excuse went to?

With something like this -- first, I discover I never had a friend. I was a dumb [insert-insult-here].

My fears:

1. Now that I declined to sell he can hijack my 10-year worth content if he wished. He can unplug my domain name and pop in his own domain name. Time is ticking.
2. All those thousands of Facebook/Twitter followers who subscribed because they were my website's direct traffic: He could unguest me so I can't post, and ask the followers to visit his new domain name if he creates one.
3. Did I mention the bossy third-party partner he put in the throne with a husband earning above $500,000 a year? Yea. "My Fears" above should be in bold text.

These agreements you are talking about were never reduced to writing, were they (even in emails or text messages)? Oral agreements tend to be remembered differently by everyone.

No one should enter into a partnership, even with a friend, without a written agreement detailing the partnership arrangement, because friendships can end and partnerships can dissolve.

That said, you cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it.

If you want your domain name to remain yours, and you want to protect your trademarked and copyrighted material, and you want to be back in complete control of your website, you will need to start fighting for this. Or you (apparently) have the option of selling what you either want to sell or can sell to your friend, and you can move on to something different, leaving the partnership behind. If you have a loyal internet following, they will more than likely locate you on a new site.

Again I suggest you seek out free legal assistance in your area. An attorney can help you unravel the mess that your web business partership is fast becoming and can perhaps help you put together an agreement (even a severance agreement) that might work well for all involved.

Good luck.

 

[Nategrey]

These agreements you are talking about were never reduced to writing, were they (even in emails or text messages)? Oral agreements tend to be remembered differently by everyone.

No one should enter into a partnership, even with a friend, without a written agreement detailing the partnership arrangement, because friendships can end and partnerships can dissolve.

That said, you cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it.

If you want your domain name to remain yours, and you want to protect your trademarked and copyrighted material, and you want to be back in complete control of your website, you will need to start fighting for this. Or you (apparently) have the option of selling what you either want to sell or can sell to your friend, and you can move on to something different, leaving the partnership behind. If you have a loyal internet following, they will more than likely locate you on a new site.

Again I suggest you seek out free legal assistance in your area. An attorney can help you unravel the mess that your web business partership is fast becoming and can perhaps help you put together an agreement (even a severance agreement) that might work well for all involved.

Good luck.

This agreement was in communication via chat. I might have log chats buried on my Vista partition I recovered a few months ago after a crash. Dual-booted, but rarely use that partition anymore. I'll have to figure out what chat client I used back then, and then locate where the logs are auto-stored.

Today he said via email that he had been thinking about proposing to buy my domain name for a year or two. Which kinda matches with the amount of time since I departed my paid job. (scary)

He also says in the email (not quoting) -- He is able to code great things to make the website bigger and better. But he don't want to invest time on coding if he gains no benefit for his work. Thus he can only do that for the website if he owns the domain name from me.

That to me completely disregards our original agreement. He willingly did never code a single database, script, etc. to make the website better. Thus his intention wasn't to generate more traffic to increase revenue. That sounds to me like agreement violation.

He dedicated to gain control of my website:

1. Hosting server account is paid for and administrated by his friend. I have no login/pass access to the FTP, nor the Cpanel. I can't even make a database backup.
2. He created the website's Twitter, Facebook, G+ and YouTube accounts, so umm my visitors is literally his unless he gives up ownership of those accounts to me.
3. Beta keys, giveaway, and website coordination with the company's public relations we are a fans of -- he took over leadership of that from me after a lot of argument many months ago.
4. Literally he stripped control of everything but the domain name, and now he wants that too, and wants me to stay as staff writing the articles I write.

I don't want to be ungrateful that he would let me have my affiliate ID revenue links, and pay $2500 for the domain name but --- [insert language filter trigger here] For real? Agreement violation and wants to own a website I sweat 10 years of my life to grow.

 

[Nategrey]

Fears came true.

He just removed my posting priviliges to post on my own website. I can no longer update Facebook, Twitter, YouTube. He is taking my website and social network hostage.

 

[You Are Guilty]

I didn't see any state posted (and based on the actions of your "friend", it appears safe to assume you are not Canadian, since Canadians are way too polite to do these sorts of things).

If you care to provide some basic location info, we may be able to dredge up some local pro bono legal services, or, at worst, the procedure you'd need to get a fee waiver to file a lawsuit yourself.

 

[Nategrey]

New York City. Not canadian. Too goodhearted yes. [insert-flavored-adjetive] yes. I deserve it.

I asked to dissolve the partnership. I asked the server account to be transferred to my name so I continue the monthly payments. I asked for the social media accounts tied to my visitors to be transferred.

The response was removal of posting privileges. He said he did it as precaution because as he claims [I had irrational thought process]. I'm crazy now too?

That was last night. Today he emailed he had restored posting privileges again hoping I had slept well and calmed down. Haven't seen privileges restored in the social media accounts, but hopefully that's back over the next few hours.

He plainly don't want to leave because he's spent 5 years on the website. So, I guess I have a lost battle here. I can no longer trust someone who took so much control over my website and now pretends I'll also give up the domain name, yet wants me to stick around as article writer. If that's how he wants to help me, gee who needs friends like that.

Round up

Back 2 years ago. The agreement via online chat (not sure if it was MSN or ICQ) was:

1. I would quit my day job and he would bring in advertising publishers that would generate enough revenue to cover what my employers were paying, and enough to cover [his] flight+hotel costs to the yearly convention event he loves to attend to write articles, do interviews, etc.

As per the agreement, 2-years forward he failed completely the agreement. I never got revenue to justify I had left my paid job. I earned at that paid job $950 a month (part-time). I have a disability that won't let me do normal jobs. So I worked at that website online from my home.

The agreement was never that he would be entitled to 50/50 of my website ownership. So because he's invested 2-5 years of his life in my website, he feels entitled to 50/50 of my ownership.

Thought the partnership here was that I would help him cover flight + hotel expenses once a year for his fanboy event. Hopefully my [irrational thought process] as he put it isn't that irrational to people who knows about intelectual property laws.

 

[You Are Guilty]

You have a complicated case. It's not going to be easy. Assuming you want equitable relief (that is, an order to force the other guy to do something other than pay you money), you'll likely need to file in Supreme Court, where there are a lot of procedural rules to know. (Depending on your desired outcome, Civil Court, or even Federal District Court may be suitable. This post is in no way suggesting what court you need to file in).

Either way, you can start here:
http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/1jd/supctmanh/Help_Center.shtml
and
http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts/nyc/smallclaims/forms/PoorPersonsRelief.pdf

If you are in Manhattan, I strongly suggest you stop by the Help Center at 111 Centre (usually a lot of free volunteer attorneys available for more personalized assistance) or the Help Office at 60 Centre (Room 119? But they usually just have clerks to help). [If you are in another borough, I can get you addresses for similar help centers wherever you may be.]

If nothing else, this should illustrate that the cheapest, quickest, and easiest solution will be to (attempt to) negotiate with your "partner" and to remove his access to your materials once you gain control back.

Good luck.

 

[Nategrey]

All I want is full control of my website (web hosting account. Social media associated with my domain name). I guess even now I am too nice. I'm just going down to basics: I never negotiated or made a partnership based on 50/50 of my ownership over the content. The bottom of the website says " Copyright [domainname.com]. All Rights Reserved.

I own the domain name. Thus all content of the website is copyright of the domain name. Ownership of the website content was never part of the partnership.

Thanks for the information. I will go to the Manhattan address you suggested.

 

[Nategrey]

Update: Ok this totally blew my mind into tiny pieces. This was beyond any fears I could have had imagination to think he would do.

When I was attempting to login to my website, to double-check if he had restored my access -- I noticed my Firefox NoScript addon was triggered. The login page never triggered it. When I clicked it, it said it was blocking a domain name identical to mine except for an "S" at the end.

Immediately I went to a WHOIS search website and effectively, it was created a few minutes ago, and it's owned by HIM.

HE IS STEALING MY WEBSITE AND COMMUNITY (thousands of Social Media followers)

 

[quincy]

Update: Ok this totally blew my mind into tiny pieces. This was beyond any fears I could have had imagination to think he would do.

When I was attempting to login to my website, to double-check if he had restored my access -- I noticed my Firefox NoScript addon was triggered. The login page never triggered it. When I clicked it, it said it was blocking a domain name identical to mine except for an "S" at the end.

Immediately I went to a WHOIS search website and effectively, it was created a few minutes ago, and it's owned by HIM.

HE IS STEALING MY WEBSITE AND COMMUNITY (thousands of Social Media followers)

Have you visited the Help Center that You Are Guilty spoke of in his post?

It is time for you to find an attorney to help you, Nategrey. Or you may discover it is too late for you to do anything to recover your website.

I wish you much good luck.

 

[Nategrey]

I was planning to go today. It's 8am in New York. I haven't slept to be honest. Not sure I can make it today. I will try.