DOMA IS GONE! YES! And gay marriage in CA is legal!

[RedemptionMan]

those with agendas can still think they won something, but this does nothing to state law that recognizes traditional marriage between a Man and a Woman. I could care less as long as that remains an east and west coast thing, but I can really recognize why so many Americas are applying for citizen ship to other countries. Best to get off the sinking ship while you still can......

Hopefully, some will come to their senses and appeal and over turn such a disgrace to state's rights and sovereignty.

 

[single317dad]

I don't know how many times I give a cashier an odd amount (to them) for the cost of an item. Rather than explain, I tell them to just input the amount. When the register gives the result of change to be returned you can see the glimmer of understanding pass their face and a look of awe at the obvious math wizard standing across the counter.

Absolutely. If I hand most cashiers $2.12 for something that costs $1.87, they'll just hand the twelve cents back to me and let the automatic changer spit out thirteen more. Many will even do it if it's a simple as $6.05 for a $5.55 purchase.

 

[single317dad]

those with agendas can still think they won something, but this does nothing to state law that recognizes traditional marriage between a Man and a Woman. I could care less as long as that remains an east and west coast thing, but I can really recognize why so many Americas are applying for citizen ship to other countries. Best to get off the sinking ship while you still can......

Hopefully, some will come to their senses and appeal and over turn such a disgrace to state's rights and sovereignty.

All to often when someone loses in this country they threaten to move elsewhere. Liberals do it when conservatives win (most notably Alec Baldwin, France, 2000). Conservatives do it when liberals win (Rush himself threatened to move to Canada when Obamacare passed in 2010). I'm a big states'-rights guy, but individual freedom trumps states' rights for me, and federal government should bow to both. So, smoke a joint, hire a prostitute, and marry whomever you want (all jurisdiction-dependent, of course).

 

[tranquility]

All to often when someone loses in this country they threaten to move elsewhere. Liberals do it when conservatives win (most notably Alec Baldwin, France, 2000). Conservatives do it when liberals win (Rush himself threatened to move to Canada when Obamacare passed in 2010). I'm a big states'-rights guy, but individual freedom trumps states' rights for me, and federal government should bow to both. So, smoke a joint, hire a prostitute, and marry whomever you want (all jurisdiction-dependent, of course).

Individual "freedom"? Freedom to do what?

 

[single317dad]

Individual "freedom"? Freedom to do what?

Pretty much anything that doesn't encroach on someone else's rights. These guys say it better than I ever could:

David Boaz sums it up pretty well:

Libertarianism is the view that each person has the right to live his life in any way he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others. Libertarians defend each person's right to life, liberty, and property-rights that people have naturally, before governments are created. In the libertarian view, all human relationships should be voluntary; the only actions that should be forbidden by law are those that involve the initiation of force against those who have not themselves used force-actions like murder, rape, robbery, kidnapping, and fraud.

David Friedman said:

The central idea of libertarianism is that people should be permitted to run their own lives as they wish.

And one from Jerry Goldman:

Liberals favor government action to promote equality, whereas conservatives favor government action to promote order. Libertarians favor freedom and oppose government action to promote either equality or order.

Also:

So, smoke a joint, hire a prostitute, and marry whomever you want.

 

[RedemptionMan]

All to often when someone loses in this country they threaten to move elsewhere. Liberals do it when conservatives win (most notably Alec Baldwin, France, 2000). Conservatives do it when liberals win (Rush himself threatened to move to Canada when Obamacare passed in 2010). I'm a big states'-rights guy, but individual freedom trumps states' rights for me, and federal government should bow to both. So, smoke a joint, hire a prostitute, and marry whomever you want (all jurisdiction-dependent, of course).

It is hard for me to work and pay taxes to a country that supports these individuals in the matter in which they do while my tax dollars goes to fund them and their domestic partner benefits. I can call my senators and complain, I can try and apply to citizenship in Switzerland or Australia but how would my USA college educated self compete for jobs over there? When I got my degrees in the 1990s the system at the time was a lot tougher than it is now. They lowered the standards so minorities could compete better then they get better jobs not because of their qualifications but because of their sexual orientation and/ or skin color. Charlton Heston said it best EQUAL rights does not mean more rights than the normal citizen and these laws are indicative of protected classes and special people. Come out gay so you can get a better job especially with the government, more security and better benefits. What a crock of crap, you have to be high if you think this is a good idea. I understand the pursuit of happiness but our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what has happened to this country and I am a moderate not super conservative or liberal. I could care less what CA and NY do, but they should not dictate their agendas on the rest of the country especially state specific laws which oppose the ruling which they just handed down.

 

[Zigner]

It is hard for me to work and pay taxes to a country that supports these individuals in the matter in which they do while my tax dollars goes to fund them and their domestic partner benefits. I can call my senators and complain, I can try and apply to citizenship in Switzerland or Australia but how would my USA college educated self compete for jobs over there? When I got my degrees in the 1990s the system at the time was a lot tougher than it is now. They lowered the standards so minorities could compete better then they get better jobs not because of their qualifications but because of their sexual orientation and/ or skin color. Charlton Heston said it best EQUAL rights does not mean more rights than the normal citizen and these laws are indicative of protected classes and special people. Come out gay so you can get a better job especially with the government, more security and better benefits. What a crock of crap, you have to be high if you think this is a good idea. I understand the pursuit of happiness but our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what has happened to this country and I am a moderate not super conservative or liberal. I could care less what CA and NY do, but they should not dictate their agendas on the rest of the country especially state specific laws which oppose the ruling which they just handed down.

No ruling was made on the constitutionality of Prop 8. DOMA is federal. What are you rambling about again?

 

[RedemptionMan]

No ruling was made on the constitutionality of Prop 8. DOMA is federal. What are you rambling about again?

I understand that federal for federal benefits, oh they get Pentagon military benefits for protected domestic partners or other federal benefits that they could be entitled too.

 

[single317dad]

It is hard for me to work and pay taxes to a country that supports these individuals in the matter in which they do while my tax dollars goes to fund them and their domestic partner benefits. I can call my senators and complain, I can try and apply to citizenship in Switzerland or Australia but how would my USA college educated self compete for jobs over there? When I got my degrees in the 1990s the system at the time was a lot tougher than it is now. They lowered the standards so minorities could compete better then they get better jobs not because of their qualifications but because of their sexual orientation and/ or skin color. Charlton Heston said it best EQUAL rights does not mean more rights than the normal citizen and these laws are indicative of protected classes and special people. Come out gay so you can get a better job especially with the government, more security and better benefits. What a crock of crap, you have to be high if you think this is a good idea. I understand the pursuit of happiness but our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what has happened to this country and I am a moderate not super conservative or liberal. I could care less what CA and NY do, but they should not dictate their agendas on the rest of the country especially state specific laws which oppose the ruling which they just handed down.

I can agree somewhat with what you're saying, but I think you're VASTLY overstating any advantage homosexuals (or any other minority) may have in the job market. Affirmative Action isn't as big a deal as many make it out to be (though I still oppose it). Three states have banned it by constitutional amendment.

I also don't think you're taking into account that allowing gay marriage would give homosexuals the same rights, responsibilities, and benefits that heterosexual married couples enjoy, so if you don't like "domestic partner benefits" you should be celebrating today.

 

[tranquility]

No ruling was made on the constitutionality of Prop 8. DOMA is federal. What are you rambling about again?

I believe he was pointing out the flaw in the libertarian argument about freedom to do something as long as it does not infringe on another person's rights. It all depends on how you look at things.

 

[tranquility]

I also don't think you're taking into account that allowing gay marriage would give homosexuals the same rights, responsibilities, and benefits that heterosexual married couples enjoy, so if you don't like "domestic partner benefits" you should be celebrating today.

This is the point I was trying to make. What "right"? Freedom to do what? Name it.

Then, for the slippery slope argument, compare and contrast with all the other marriage laws out there. Multiple spouses, closely related spouses, temporary spouses, non-human spouses, inanimate object spouses, dual personality within one self spouse--describe the right.

 

[RedemptionMan]

I can agree somewhat with what you're saying, but I think you're VASTLY overstating any advantage homosexuals (or any other minority) may have in the job market. Affirmative Action isn't as big a deal as many make it out to be (though I still oppose it). Three states have banned it by constitutional amendment.

I also don't think you're taking into account that allowing gay marriage would give homosexuals the same rights, responsibilities, and benefits that heterosexual married couples enjoy, so if you don't like "domestic partner benefits" you should be celebrating today.

I understand that and they just made a lot of lawyers a bunch of money in handling divorces, and estates but if you do not think that homosexuals and minorities hold high positions with power in this government then you are kidding yourself. The only reason this was passed at this time was due to the orientation of specific legislatures, senators and supreme court justices. Bill Clinton signed the law into effect for protective measures with state rights, I do not think his agenda was to infringe on states rights and the states population has a right to pass their own legislation. So, not only could all the immigrants here illegally get citizenship, their partners get citizenship as well whether they are homosexual or heterosexual, so now you just over loaded an already tilted welfare and social benefits systems from groups of people who never paid taxes in this country to begin with. I guess they are counting their votes and hoping they get jobs that pay taxes but I figure they will be like most sit at home and take government checks and be a bigger burden on the system than it is now.

 

[Zigner]

...dual personality within one self spouse--describe the right.

Oh HELL no. My wife can barely stand me...there's no way that *I* could stand me!

 

[tranquility]

Oh HELL no. My wife can barely stand me...there's no way that *I* could stand me!

I resemble that remark.

 

[RedemptionMan]

Multiple spouses, closely related spouses, temporary spouses, non-human spouses, inanimate object spouses, dual personality within one self spouse--describe the right.

Your right, I want to marry my dog, do I qualify for benefits and a civil union? It after all is what makes me happy.