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Who's watching the hen house?

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4relvr

Member
What is the name of your state California

My Father passed away last Sept. The same person who was the attorney in fact is also the executor and an heir to my Father's estate.

After seeing some of the records since he passed, I have suspicions about what was spent before his death.

Do I have the legal right to ask for and see his financial records (currently held by the POA) before his death? If not, who does?

My Dad's attorney who handles his trust appears to be rubber stamping everything the executor says or does and a recent correspondence from the attorney says she now represents the trustee (same as executor). So my question is where are the checks and balances here? Who watches the POA? If my Father had dimentia, 24hr care, and was incompetent the last year of his life, who watches over the POA with his estate?

Thanks in advance for your response.
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Duplicate Post: https://forum.freeadvice.com/elder-law-powers-attorney-living-wills-advance-health-care-directives-115/do-i-have-right-see-paperwork-before-death-father-607014.html
 

curb1

Senior Member
No one is watching the POA because there isn't one now. Has the will been submitted for probate? Do you feel it was a valid will? Have you seen the will?
 

4relvr

Member
No one is watching the POA because there isn't one now. Has the will been submitted for probate? Do you feel it was a valid will? Have you seen the will?
I know there isn't one now. I was talking about the (now) executor who was the POA.

It was a rev trust that isn't going to probate.

I have seen the will and am not disputing what was in it. I'm just concerned about the amount of money that was spent from 6 months before my dad passed away until he did pass.
 

curb1

Senior Member
Tell us how the money was spent. Was it unreasonable and do you have proof? Have you seen a copy of the trust? Who is the beneficiary you refer? Are you a beneficiary?
 

4relvr

Member
Here are some of the particulars to my original post.

1. I know there were 2 promissory notes still owed to the trust by the executor (who is my sister and also a beneficiary).
2. Another one of the beneficiaries (also my sister) also had an unpaid promissory note with same.
3. My dad had a money market acct with approx 51K in it when he died.
4. He also had a checking acct with $3,3xx.xx in it when he died.
5. He had stocks, securities, and annuities worth approx $5-600,000.00.
6. I am also a beneficiary.
7. The executor says she paid off both promissory notes in Apr 2013. Also says my dad excused the other beneficiaries note in Dec. 2012. Says her and Dad celebrated her paying off notes and burned them in the fireplace along with the other beneficiaries note.
8. Executor also states mm acct and checking acct were given to her by my Dad.


Questions I have are:

1. I have proof that all 3 notes were not paid off in full. What do I do about it and who do I show and tell because my Dad's attorney now represents the same person who owes the trust $$?
2. How can I find out when the executor's name was put on the mmarket acct?
3. There are many more examples of fudiciary abuse that I won't get into here but what constitutes elderly fudiciary abuse? Or is there such a thing?
 
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curb1

Senior Member
If all of these accounts you mentioned had sisters name listed on the title or were paid-on-death accounts, or listed her as beneficiary, you will have a very difficult time proving anything. Yes, people are manipulated in their old age by people they trust. Proving there was a manipulation is very difficult and expensive after the fact.
 

anteater

Senior Member
You keep referring to the "executor." But it sounds like all assets were part of a trust and that there is no need to open probate and have an executor appointed. Do you mean trustee?

I would put it this way... The person who watches the "POA hen house" is the person (the principal) who granted the power.

If you want an accounting of the agent's actions, you need court involvement. That's a pretty daunting D-I-Y project. I would suggest contacting a couple trust/probate/elder law attorneys.
 

4relvr

Member
You keep referring to the "executor." But it sounds like all assets were part of a trust and that there is no need to open probate and have an executor appointed. Do you mean trustee?

I would put it this way... The person who watches the "POA hen house" is the person (the principal) who granted the power.

If you want an accounting of the agent's actions, you need court involvement. That's a pretty daunting D-I-Y project. I would suggest contacting a couple trust/probate/elder law attorneys.
I see what you're saying. My Dad wasn't competent the last year and the poa knew it by taking advantage of the situ.

So if someone was noticing a poa taking advantage of an elder while they're alive, is there anybody they can tell to try and stop it?
What about the unpaid promissory notes?

Thanks
 

anteater

Senior Member
So if someone was noticing a poa taking advantage of an elder while they're alive, is there anybody they can tell to try and stop it?
The applicable state elder services agency and/or law enforcement.

Traditionally, with regard to POA's, the "interested parties" considered to have a right to initiate legal action are the principal and the agent. Or, as I mentioned above, the state. Some states have (or are considering) broadening the definition of interested parties, usually to include the principal's spouse and children. I don't know if California has done so.


What about the unpaid promissory notes?
Here's the thing... A trust is a "private" document and is privately administered. There isn't any court involvement unless one of the interested parties initiate it. If the promissory notes were part of the trust, then you would need to get the issue before a court - for California, I believe it's the probate division of the county Superior Court.
 

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