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Lanlord is asking rent when sublesse moved out with thier consent

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angela14

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WI

We sublet our apartment in September 2013 and sublet was going to end April, 2014. But sub lessee moved out in march 2014 without telling us but they told apartment office and office staff let them break up sublease coz they are in Army.

When we moved out in September 2013, we got our security deposit back in 15 days and apartment office was directly handling all paperwork with subletting. We got move-out sheet which was saying lease end date- September 2013, BUT now as those army people moved our in March even they knew about this situation last year, apartment office sent us notice to pay rent of April, what should we do?

We did not receive any written notice form those people that subtenants are moving out in march 2014.

We are confused, now we got another move-out sheet with bills where it says- move out date 4/30/14, both move-out sheets showing totally different dates.

Should I consider first move-out sheet from September 2013 where it says- lease end date September 2013 or new move-out sheet saying lease end date -4/30/14?

Do I need to pay one month damages to landlord?

Please help, thanks!
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WI

We sublet our apartment in September 2013 and sublet was going to end April, 2014. But sub lessee moved out in march 2014 without telling us but they told apartment office and office staff let them break up sublease coz they are in Army.

When we moved out in September 2013, we got our security deposit back in 15 days and apartment office was directly handling all paperwork with subletting. We got move-out sheet which was saying lease end date- September 2013, BUT now as those army people moved our in March even they knew about this situation last year, apartment office sent us notice to pay rent of April, what should we do?

We did not receive any written notice form those people that subtenants are moving out in march 2014.

We are confused, now we got another move-out sheet with bills where it says- move out date 4/30/14, both move-out sheets showing totally different dates.

Should I consider first move-out sheet from September 2013 where it says- lease end date September 2013 or new move-out sheet saying lease end date -4/30/14?

Do I need to pay one month damages to landlord?

Please help, thanks!
Did the subtenants sign a lease with you as their landlord, or did they sign a lease with the actual landlord?
 

angela14

Junior Member
Issues

Tenants signed the same lease agreement with landlord which we had signed originally in April 2013. basically, landloard added their names to same lease form, not any new lease form.

As apartment office took control in their hands, they asked us to pay $100 fees for this sublet and did all paperwork.

We handed over all our keys to apartment office, and office people gave keys to new tenants.

All the apartment office people saying that we have nothing to do with this now, they are handing new tenants and new tenants were also talking to office directly, we were not in picture expect we found them at first place for sublet.

Please help, what we need to do?
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Tenants signed the same lease agreement with landlord which we had signed originally in April 2013. basically, landloard added their names to same lease form, not any new lease form.

As apartment office took control in their hands, they asked us to pay $100 fees for this sublet and did all paperwork.

We handed over all our keys to apartment office, and office people gave keys to new tenants.

All the apartment office people saying that we have nothing to do with this now, they are handing new tenants and new tenants were also talking to office directly, we were not in picture expect we found them at first place for sublet.

Please help, what we need to do?
YOu have issues then. If these people were added to your lease, you have to pay rent until you give proper notice.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
YOu have issues then. If these people were added to your lease, you have to pay rent until you give proper notice.
I don't think that the landlord is disputing proper notice. The landlord just wants the rent for the last month of the lease.

However, since the OP does have a document from then that states that the lease end date was September 2013, the OP might have some chance of disputing this. Its all very strangely done.
 

angela14

Junior Member
mess with apt office

thanks guys, yes I am trying to tell apartment manager but she is not ready to listen me, the want us to pay rent+late fees+utility bills even we were not informed properly that subtenant were moving out.

apartment manager is very mean, she interfered since beginning when we tried to deal directly with subtenants she did not let us to do that, she did subtenants will do all correspondence with landlord directly not with us, strange?

We are confused, if landlord was dealing directly with subtenants and allowed them to move out early then why we have to suffer?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
thanks guys, yes I am trying to tell apartment manager but she is not ready to listen me, the want us to pay rent+late fees+utility bills even we were not informed properly that subtenant were moving out.

apartment manager is very mean, she interfered since beginning when we tried to deal directly with subtenants she did not let us to do that, she did subtenants will do all correspondence with landlord directly not with us, strange?

We are confused, if landlord was dealing directly with subtenants and allowed them to move out early then why we have to suffer?
Part of the problem is the way that it was done. A subtenant is normally the tenant of the original tenant. Therefore normally you would have been the landlord and it would have been up to you to allow the subtenant to get out of the last month of the lease. In the alternative, if the regular landlord wants to take over and have control, then the subtenant becomes a replacement tenant with a lease directly with the landlord. Your situation is strange in that the subtenant was added to YOUR lease as additional tenants, with the landlord in control. An added oddity is that the landlord returned your security deposit. Normally if someone is being added to a lease, for whatever reason, the landlord does NOT return the security deposit until after the lease period has ended...it is normally up to you to collect a security deposit from your subtenants.

I am not at all sure that what the landlord did was entirely legal. However I cannot say that it wasn't either. One thing that I do know is that you have a piece of paper, from the landlord, stating that your lease ended in September of 2013. However the landlord also has a lease that shows you and the subtenants as co-tenants for the entire period of the lease.

An added tangle is that state landlord/tenant law may require a landlord to allow a military tenant out of a lease if they are transferred to another post.

At this point I think that you only have two choices. Either you pay the month's rent that is being demanded or you get a consult with a real estate attorney that specializes in landlord/tenant issues to see what kind of relief (if any) is available to you. My biggest concern for you is that the landlord won't actually sue you, but will send you to collections and ding your credit without getting a judgment. If they sue you, you have a shot at winning the case. If they don't, and just send you to collections, then its a bigger problem.
 

latigo

Senior Member
thanks guys, yes I am trying to tell apartment manager but she is not ready to listen me, the want us to pay rent+late fees+utility bills even we were not informed properly that subtenant were moving out.

apartment manager is very mean, she interfered since beginning when we tried to deal directly with subtenants she did not let us to do that, she did subtenants will do all correspondence with landlord directly not with us, strange?

We are confused, if landlord was dealing directly with subtenants and allowed them to move out early then why we have to suffer?
Hold your horses, angela!

Contrary to what you have been told, You DO NOT have any issues with the landlord! You DO NOT owe for any rent, utilities, etc., accruing following the date "the office staff let them break up sublease coz [sic] they are in Army".

When at the landlord's behest the others were added to and signed the same lease that you were on, they became co-tenants NOT SUBTENANTS. Nothing you have stated here created a SUBLEASE.

THEN when the landlord let the other co-tenants off of the same hook you were on - AND you did not give your consent and reaffirm your commitment to the terms of the lease - it took you off of the hook as well!

If you wish further explanation, say so. But rest assured that when the landlord released one or more joint obligors it released all others equally obligated.
 

angela14

Junior Member
need more suggestions, thanks!

Hi all, I really appreciate your suggestions.

This is what we are trying to explain the office manager from last 2 months but she is so rude that she hung up our phone and we got notice form their attorney either pay rent or they will sue us for this amount. we feel those are doing discrimination by mistreating us. We were good tenants, never late in payments and any bills. office people told us pay $100 fees for sublet and paperwork then we are done, but now they are after us, this situation is so stressful.

We can't be able understand why manager let other people break up lease terms coz they are in army and we are not in army so we have to go through all this harassment.

Moreover, when we asked manager why they did not consult us before allowing other people to move out, she said- they do not need to discuss this with us, it is law and those people do not need to tell you either if they were moving out, we were shocked, they why we pay rent?

Now I had submit a letter to their attorney showing that lease end date - September 2013, but looks like attorney is not paying attention and is ready to sue us.

We want fair dealing but what is happening not good, we feel that. Another interesting thing is- utility bill $90 for vacant apartment in April, how come?

what are my chances to win this case and under what ground? what could I show as proof to judge if required.:confused:
 

angela14

Junior Member
Hold your horses, angela!



If you wish further explanation, say so. But rest assured that when the landlord released one or more joint obligors it released all others equally obligated.
Hi latigo,

Thank you for your words, I want to know does it matter - co-tenants are in military or not. as per landlord as they are in military they can go off hook but we are not?
 

BL

Senior Member
Hi latigo,

Thank you for your words, I want to know does it matter - co-tenants are in military or not. as per landlord as they are in military they can go off hook but we are not?
You were all tenant's. If the tenant had theier own lease there is a ot, but you were ALL co-tenant. The LL has a right to full payment/Period.
 

latigo

Senior Member
Hi latigo,

Thank you for your words, I want to know does it matter - co-tenants are in military or not. as per landlord as they are in military they can go off hook but we are not?
Not unless there was such a provision added to the lease at the time it was amended - THAT IS, when it was amended by adding their names as co-tenants - AND you agreed to that provision by signing a supplemental agreement.

It would be different had you the authority under the Lease and actually entered into a sublease with the military people. Because if they defaulted under your sublease, you would still be liable to the landlord under the prime Lease which would not be altered, per se, by the sublease agreement..

But in that event the landlord would have no authority to relieve them of the obligation of your sublease to which it was not privy. That is, not a signatory party other that perhaps as giving its written consent.
 

latigo

Senior Member
You were all tenant's. If the tenant had theier [sic] own lease there is a ot [sic], but you were ALL co-tenant. The LL has a right to full payment/Period.
Clearly they all became tenants and to the same lease as it is patently unfeasible for a landlord to effectively lease the same property to separate tenants.

And it is true that the landlord had "the right to full payment" up to the time he released the additional co-tenants. But not afterward. Not unless the landlord expressly reserved his rights against the OP and she agreed in writing to remain obligated.

For you edification, a creditor cannot unilaterally release a co-obligor without releasing all others bound by the same obligation.

Here the landlord could no more release the other co-tenants and still hold the OP responsible without her consent - than he could unilaterally renew the lease agreement.
 

BL

Senior Member
Clearly they all became tenants and to the same lease as it is patently unfeasible for a landlord to effectively lease the same property to separate tenants.

And it is true that the landlord had "the right to full payment" up to the time he released the additional co-tenants. But not afterward. Not unless the landlord expressly reserved his rights against the OP and she agreed in writing to remain obligated.

For you edification, a creditor cannot unilaterally release a co-obligor without releasing all others bound by the same obligation.

Here the landlord could no more release the other co-tenants and still hold the OP responsible without her consent - than he could unilaterally renew the lease agreement.


Oh are you trying to say ,ther LL doesn't get the full rent? Don't think so.

BTW ,the origial leaser's is responsble for the subleasor's actions .
 
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