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3 Misdeamnor; Request extention and Trail by Declaration?

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fightthisticket

Junior Member
Back in September I got a unfair ticket with 3 counts of violation. I finally just received the amount last week for ridiculous high amount of $1300. I am curious as how to fight it and would love some advice. I have done some research on my own but would love to hear from people who have fight and won.

The 3 violations are VL 2145-3(a) red light, VL 21461(a) fail obey sign, VL 22451 (a) stop on r/r track. (As written on the citation.) I live in southern California and the ticket from San Gabriel Valley.

I was driving at night and the street leading to the light/railroad is a curve. Prior before turning into the dark curve, the signs and lights are not within view. I drove up to the curve with 3 turning lanes that intersect with the railroads. The 3 turning lanes has 2 sets of lights, left & right floor indication in front and behind the rail road tracks. Making it appears as though the floor indication in front of the rail road tracks is a stop area.

Please note when I pull up to this curve there was no signal the train is coming but a regular red light and I had made a full stop. The violation code VL 22451 (a) The driver of any vehicle or pedestrian approaching a railroad or rail transit grade crossing shall stop not less than 15 feet from the nearest rail and shall not proceed until he or she can do so safely, whenever the following conditions exist:. It does state I am required to stop or any immediate hazard, pedestrian, or signal the train is coming. Am I correct to say that I was ticketed wrong?

Next question, should I request a 60 day extension around the holiday hoping the officer would not show up? Or should I request a extension and opt for a Trail by Declaration? I looked up the officer salalry and clearly he makes a good living with a salary of $73,000 and overtime pay of $33,000! I am curious to hear all your great advice.

Thank you!



VL 22451 (A)

(a) The driver of any vehicle or pedestrian approaching a railroad or rail transit grade crossing shall stop not less than 15 feet from the nearest rail and shall not proceed until he or she can do so safely, whenever the following conditions exist:

(1) A clearly visible electric or mechanical signal device or a flagman gives warning of the approach or passage of a train or car.

(2) An approaching train or car is plainly visible or is emitting an audible signal and, by reason of its speed or nearness, is an immediate hazard.

(b) No driver or pedestrian shall proceed through, around, or under any railroad or rail transit crossing gate while the gate is closed.

(c) Whenever a railroad or rail transit crossing is equipped with an automated enforcement system, a notice of a violation of this section is subject to the procedures provided in Section 40518.


Circular Red or Red Arrow

21453. (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).

(b) Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver, after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way street onto a one-way street. A driver making that turn shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to any vehicle that has approached or is approaching so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard to the driver, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to that vehicle until the driver can proceed with reasonable safety.

(c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.

(d) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in Section 21456, a pedestrian facing a steady circular red or red arrow signal shall not enter the roadway.

Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 14, Stats. 2001. Effective January 1, 2002.


Obedience by Driver to Official Traffic Control Devices

21461. (a) It is unlawful for a driver of a vehicle to fail to obey a sign or signal defined as regulatory in the federal Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, or a Department of Transportation approved supplement to that manual of a regulatory nature erected or maintained to enhance traffic safety and operations or to indicate and carry out the provisions of this code or a local traffic ordinance or resolution adopted pursuant to a local traffic ordinance, or to fail to obey a device erected or maintained by lawful authority of a public body or official.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to acts constituting violations under Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 22500) of this division or to acts constituting violations of a local traffic ordinance adopted pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 22500).

Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 203, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005.

 
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Ladyback1

Senior Member
I looked up the officer salalry and clearly he makes a good living with a salary of $73,000 and overtime pay of $33,000! I am curious to hear all your great advice.
what in the blue hell does the officer's salary have to do with you and your multiple infractions???

(btw, please cite your source for the officer's salary, as I would love to see that! A regular ole schmoe cop making over $100K/year?? Wow!)
 

fightthisticket

Junior Member
it has to everything to do with...

Hi Ladyback1!

It definitely most has a lot to do with not only my ticket but many others who received a ticket. 33,000 in overtime is mostly correlated to tickets and showing up at court for paying overtime. Many of the other officer listed if not the same amount in ot or higher!

Not to say doesn't mean they don't have other duties I'm sure ticket quota is a huge check of change.

Do.you have any insight to fighting tickets?

It's public record for people who.work for the government.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Hi Ladyback1!

It definitely most has a lot to do with not only my ticket but many others who received a ticket. 33,000 in overtime is mostly correlated to tickets and showing up at court for paying overtime. Many of the other officer listed if not the same amount in ot or higher!

Not to say doesn't mean they don't have other duties I'm sure ticket quota is a huge check of change.

Do.you have any insight to fighting tickets?

It's public record for people who.work for the government.
The officer's salary has nothing to do with your violations/citation. :rolleyes:
 

Ladyback1

Senior Member
Hi Ladyback1!



It's public record for people who.work for the government.
Please clarify this statement: It's either public record, or it's private and you have access to it because you work for the govt. Your syntax is confusing.

Personally, I think you should just pay the ticket and quit whining about cops have quotas, and the only reason they have overtime is because of writing tickets...

Next thing we'll hear is "I pay taxes so I pay the cop's wages!" Here's the deal buddy: The cops pay taxes too, so with that "I pay taxes" argument--the cops effectively pay themselves!

(and I asked for a source, because...duh...I'm not in whatever state you are in, and really have no idea where to look)
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Please clarify this statement: It's either public record, or it's private and you have access to it because you work for the govt. Your syntax is confusing.

Personally, I think you should just pay the ticket and quit whining about cops have quotas, and the only reason they have overtime is because of writing tickets...

Next thing we'll hear is "I pay taxes so I pay the cop's wages!" Here's the deal buddy: The cops pay taxes too, so with that "I pay taxes" argument--the cops effectively pay themselves!

(and I asked for a source, because...duh...I'm not in whatever state you are in, and really have no idea where to look)
I can believe an officer makes $100k per year including overtime. I personally know an LAPD officer who makes that much when you factor in overtime.
 

Ladyback1

Senior Member
I can believe an officer makes $100k per year including overtime. I personally know an LAPD officer who makes that much when you factor in overtime.

As well he should! I certainly am not willing to put my life on the line every time I go to work, thus I have no issues w/ LEOs being paid a decent salary. And because the cost of living varies from area to area, $100K/year in LA doesn't go as far as $65K/year here in Montana.

But regardless of the salary of LEOs...it has nothing to do with the OPs ticket. But, I'd sure like to be a fly on the wall when he tries that argument in court!:D;)
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Hi Ladyback1!

It definitely most has a lot to do with not only my ticket but many others who received a ticket. 33,000 in overtime is mostly correlated to tickets and showing up at court for paying overtime. Many of the other officer listed if not the same amount in ot or higher!
Uh, no ... he did not get $33,000 in overtime solely for court. The majority of overtime comes from working shifts in order to cover vacant positions.

And a base salary of $73,000???? What agency did this officer work for?

But, it has no bearing whatsoever on your citation, so it is a non-issue.

Not to say doesn't mean they don't have other duties I'm sure ticket quota is a huge check of change.
Quotas are illegal in CA. And do you have ANY PROOF that the officer lied and made this all up? Any at all? If not, then no judge worth a darn will permit you to even raise the matter.

His salary and any overtime is not at all an issue here.
 
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fightthisticket

Junior Member
Hello everyone,

I seem to have cause a stir and that was not my intention. And I never said the quotas was the reasons why I'm fighting my ticket. It was merely a statement saying policy officer makes more money than people think. That is all. I did not state he didn't deserve that amount nor that my reason to fight this unjust ticket. Nor did I whine about my tax dollar to supplement his income.

If you read what I had written aside from his salary that the ticket I received claimed I STOP on the railroad. According to the violations, as long I'm cautious and there was is no indication of any hazard.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Hello everyone,

I seem to have cause a stir and that was not my intention. And I never said the quotas was the reasons why I'm fighting my ticket. It was merely a statement saying policy officer makes more money than people think. That is all. I did not state he didn't deserve that amount nor that my reason to fight this unjust ticket. Nor did I whine about my tax dollar to supplement his income.

If you read what I had written aside from his salary that the ticket I received claimed I STOP on the railroad. According to the violations, as long I'm cautious and there was is no indication of any hazard.
I think you may be misunderstanding the section you were cited for, but the section is vague. It seems to me that there is equipment there that gives warning of an approaching train.

However, even if you forget about the railroad track, the problem you still have is failing to stop before the limit line on a red light.
 

fightthisticket

Junior Member
Hi,

Thank you for the factual response. Sorry for the double post as I'm typing from my mobile makes it difficult.

Yes it is vague what I'm being cited for and there was no oncoming train. This violation was the highest in fee and as for fail to stop sign. I couldn't read the sign or barely see the train track or railroad ahead warning because it's hidden behind the curve and it's a really dark street.

I'm hoping to get a big chunk of it waived or if possible dismissed.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Hi,

Thank you for the factual response. Sorry for the double post as I'm typing from my mobile makes it difficult.

Yes it is vague what I'm being cited for and there was no oncoming train. This violation was the highest in fee and as for fail to stop sign. I couldn't read the sign or barely see the train track or railroad ahead warning because it's hidden behind the curve and it's a really dark street.

I'm hoping to get a big chunk of it waived or if possible dismissed.
What stop sign? You were cited for failing to stop before entering the intersection on a red.
 

fightthisticket

Junior Member
Please clarify this statement: It's either public record, or it's private and you have access to it because you work for the govt. Your syntax is confusing.

Personally, I think you should just pay the ticket and quit whining about cops have quotas, and the only reason they have overtime is because of writing tickets...

Next thing we'll hear is "I pay taxes so I pay the cop's wages!" Here's the deal buddy: The cops pay taxes too, so with that "I pay taxes" argument--the cops effectively pay themselves!

(and I asked for a source, because...duh...I'm not in whatever state you are in, and really have no idea where to look)
Hi,

Sorry I was on the go when typing that and I don't have the source on me right now. I forgot what was my google search term I used but it is a public record atleast in California. BTW, I never whined about paying I'm not sure where you are getting that from. All I did was ask for advice not a handout. I will get back to you on the source.
 

fightthisticket

Junior Member
It was not a stop sign but a sign that hang on the far right of the curb by the railroad stating we must stop before the makred area.

One of my argument, it was possible to see and the curb is dark. I will post a photo when I get back on my computer later tonight.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
It was not a stop sign but a sign that hang on the far right of the curb by the railroad stating we must stop before the makred area.

One of my argument, it was possible to see and the curb is dark. I will post a photo when I get back on my computer later tonight.
You were charged with failing to stop behind the limit line at a red light.
 

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