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Clocked Much Faster than Actual in PA

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ken111

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

Recently I was lost after accidentally taking an exit without an on ramp back on to the highway. I am generally a very conscious driver, but this time, I was following poorly explained directions while eating and did not notice the posted limit on 25 mph or did I notice my speed. It is likely that I was speeding over the meager speed limit for this type of street, but I was behind another local vehicle that was traveling faster than I (they pulled off the road moments before the cop's position) and I remember having to speed up to 45 mph when I did noticed the higher posted speed limit 500 ft after the cop's position.

The officer "clocked" me at 52 mph in the 25 mph zone. I know I was not going that fast - I drive a Fiat and have a good sense of my speed even without watching my gauge, and as mentioned, I had to speed up to reach 45 mph 500 ft later. If I plead guilty to going 27 mph over the speed limit I can get 5 points and a sharp increase to my insurance - both things that do not fit into my tight budget right now. If the ticket stated I was driving < 40 mph I would believe the officer and send in my bill, but 52 mph is way faster than the speed I was going and it comes with a much heftier fine and premium hikes.

What should I do?

1) Bite the bullet and pay the fine - I was probably speeding after all.

2) Plead guilty/no contest and ask for leniency - I have one moving violation in my 17 years of driving and that was 6-8 years ago

3) Plead not guilty and fight the ticket... (The remainder of this post discusses this option)

Option 3:
Facts - He clocked me traveling on the inside of a curve with lines markings about 100 ft apart stretching across both lanes. It was after 10 pm and was raining. His location was on my side of the road at most 20 ft from the edge of my lane with low visibility past the marking lines 50 ft in either direction. I drive a Fiat which is a very narrow car and drive hugging the shoulder at all times.

1) 100 feet (0.019 mi) at 52 mph equates to 1.31 secs. "A federally commissioned study of VASCAR recommends that to obtain accurate VASCAR readings, officers measure speeds over elapsed times of at least four seconds for stationary police units and five seconds for moving units." To me VASCAR while stationary is the same thing as "clocking" which is why I feel it is relevant. The study goes on to recommend that 200 feet is not very accurate and recommends 528 ft (reaction time errors are increased 52% at the shorter distance). At 100 feet the system should be even further off the mark.

2) It was on a curve with low visibility past the line markings on the street. Since it is on a curve how can both lanes be marked 100 ft accurately? Perhaps he uses 0.019 miles for my lane and 0.020 miles for the far lane. If he didn't mark the lines or personally measure the distance, does this information become hearsay? I also drive a car 12.1" narrower than a police cruiser and drive hugging the shoulder at all times. This means he will see my car later than other vehicles and go out of view earlier - affecting anticipatory reaction timing.

3) It was dark and raining. "Depth perception, color recognition, and peripheral vision are compromised after sundown" (National Safety Council). Also the study preformed all tests during the day.

4) He was at most 20 ft from the edge of my car - probably 12 ft. The study mentioned above also recommends being further back went clocking a car. Being 200 ft back increases reaction time errors by 51% over 528 ft back. At 528 ft vantage point a vehicle will appear to travel at a constant speed because the car's distance from you is relatively constant. At 12 or 20 ft back the speed appears to increase sharply when passing by because the car is moving quickly to and from your vantage point. Once again affecting anticipatory reaction timing.

5) Also of note during that study: Of the 633 trial runs, 57 were discarded and reran because the officer felt it was inaccurate. My ticketing officer does not have the option to rerun my clocked rate this 9% of the time.

6) Also of note from the study: Computing the reaction time errors for the 576 recorded runs yields a very believable 0.30 sec potential error for the short clocking distance of 100 ft and a 0.30 error potential for the close proximity of 20 ft. Compounding these errors to 0.60 secs for 0.019 miles is 16.3 mph difference at my clocked speed for an estimated speed of 35.7 mph.


Thanks for reading my dilemma. All opinions are appreciated.
 


Just Blue

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

Recently I was lost after accidentally taking an exit without an on ramp back on to the highway. I am generally a very conscious driver, but this time, I was following poorly explained directions while eating and did not notice the posted limit on 25 mph or did I notice my speed. It is likely that I was speeding over the meager speed limit for this type of street, but I was behind another local vehicle that was traveling faster than I (they pulled off the road moments before the cop's position) and I remember having to speed up to 45 mph when I did noticed the higher posted speed limit 500 ft after the cop's position.

The officer "clocked" me at 52 mph in the 25 mph zone. I know I was not going that fast - I drive a Fiat and have a good sense of my speed even without watching my gauge, and as mentioned, I had to speed up to reach 45 mph 500 ft later. If I plead guilty to going 27 mph over the speed limit I can get 5 points and a sharp increase to my insurance - both things that do not fit into my tight budget right now. If the ticket stated I was driving < 40 mph I would believe the officer and send in my bill, but 52 mph is way faster than the speed I was going and it comes with a much heftier fine and premium hikes.

What should I do?

1) Bite the bullet and pay the fine - I was probably speeding after all.

2) Plead guilty/no contest and ask for leniency - I have one moving violation in my 17 years of driving and that was 6-8 years ago

3) Plead not guilty and fight the ticket... (The remainder of this post discusses this option)

Option 3:
Facts - He clocked me traveling on the inside of a curve with lines markings about 100 ft apart stretching across both lanes. It was after 10 pm and was raining. His location was on my side of the road at most 20 ft from the edge of my lane with low visibility past the marking lines 50 ft in either direction. I drive a Fiat which is a very narrow car and drive hugging the shoulder at all times.

1) 100 feet (0.019 mi) at 52 mph equates to 1.31 secs. "A federally commissioned study of VASCAR recommends that to obtain accurate VASCAR readings, officers measure speeds over elapsed times of at least four seconds for stationary police units and five seconds for moving units." To me VASCAR while stationary is the same thing as "clocking" which is why I feel it is relevant. The study goes on to recommend that 200 feet is not very accurate and recommends 528 ft (reaction time errors are increased 52% at the shorter distance). At 100 feet the system should be even further off the mark.

2) It was on a curve with low visibility past the line markings on the street. Since it is on a curve how can both lanes be marked 100 ft accurately? Perhaps he uses 0.019 miles for my lane and 0.020 miles for the far lane. If he didn't mark the lines or personally measure the distance, does this information become hearsay? I also drive a car 12.1" narrower than a police cruiser and drive hugging the shoulder at all times. This means he will see my car later than other vehicles and go out of view earlier - affecting anticipatory reaction timing.

3) It was dark and raining. "Depth perception, color recognition, and peripheral vision are compromised after sundown" (National Safety Council). Also the study preformed all tests during the day.

4) He was at most 20 ft from the edge of my car - probably 12 ft. The study mentioned above also recommends being further back went clocking a car. Being 200 ft back increases reaction time errors by 51% over 528 ft back. At 528 ft vantage point a vehicle will appear to travel at a constant speed because the car's distance from you is relatively constant. At 12 or 20 ft back the speed appears to increase sharply when passing by because the car is moving quickly to and from your vantage point. Once again affecting anticipatory reaction timing.

5) Also of note during that study: Of the 633 trial runs, 57 were discarded and reran because the officer felt it was inaccurate. My ticketing officer does not have the option to rerun my clocked rate this 9% of the time.

6) Also of note from the study: Computing the reaction time errors for the 576 recorded runs yields a very believable 0.30 sec potential error for the short clocking distance of 100 ft and a 0.30 error potential for the close proximity of 20 ft. Compounding these errors to 0.60 secs for 0.019 miles is 16.3 mph difference at my clocked speed for an estimated speed of 35.7 mph.


Thanks for reading my dilemma. All opinions are appreciated.
I'll bite...(pun intended)...

Put the McBurger away while driving. ;)
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Officer: "I observed him traveling 52 mph."
ken111: "I have no idea how fast I was going, but it surely didn't feel that fast. See, I was following directions I didn't understand, it was raining, and I was eating. Just how many different things do you expect me to keep track of?"

Who's going to win?


What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

Recently I was lost after accidentally taking an exit without an on ramp back on to the highway. I am generally a very conscious driver, but this time, I was following poorly explained directions while eating and did not notice the posted limit on 25 mph or did I notice my speed. It is likely that I was speeding over the meager speed limit for this type of street, but I was behind another local vehicle that was traveling faster than I (they pulled off the road moments before the cop's position) and I remember having to speed up to 45 mph when I did noticed the higher posted speed limit 500 ft after the cop's position.

The officer "clocked" me at 52 mph in the 25 mph zone. I know I was not going that fast - I drive a Fiat and have a good sense of my speed even without watching my gauge, and as mentioned, I had to speed up to reach 45 mph 500 ft later. If I plead guilty to going 27 mph over the speed limit I can get 5 points and a sharp increase to my insurance - both things that do not fit into my tight budget right now. If the ticket stated I was driving < 40 mph I would believe the officer and send in my bill, but 52 mph is way faster than the speed I was going and it comes with a much heftier fine and premium hikes.

What should I do?

1) Bite the bullet and pay the fine - I was probably speeding after all.

2) Plead guilty/no contest and ask for leniency - I have one moving violation in my 17 years of driving and that was 6-8 years ago

3) Plead not guilty and fight the ticket... (The remainder of this post discusses this option)

Option 3:
Facts - He clocked me traveling on the inside of a curve with lines markings about 100 ft apart stretching across both lanes. It was after 10 pm and was raining. His location was on my side of the road at most 20 ft from the edge of my lane with low visibility past the marking lines 50 ft in either direction. I drive a Fiat which is a very narrow car and drive hugging the shoulder at all times.

1) 100 feet (0.019 mi) at 52 mph equates to 1.31 secs. "A federally commissioned study of VASCAR recommends that to obtain accurate VASCAR readings, officers measure speeds over elapsed times of at least four seconds for stationary police units and five seconds for moving units." To me VASCAR while stationary is the same thing as "clocking" which is why I feel it is relevant. The study goes on to recommend that 200 feet is not very accurate and recommends 528 ft (reaction time errors are increased 52% at the shorter distance). At 100 feet the system should be even further off the mark.

2) It was on a curve with low visibility past the line markings on the street. Since it is on a curve how can both lanes be marked 100 ft accurately? Perhaps he uses 0.019 miles for my lane and 0.020 miles for the far lane. If he didn't mark the lines or personally measure the distance, does this information become hearsay? I also drive a car 12.1" narrower than a police cruiser and drive hugging the shoulder at all times. This means he will see my car later than other vehicles and go out of view earlier - affecting anticipatory reaction timing.

3) It was dark and raining. "Depth perception, color recognition, and peripheral vision are compromised after sundown" (National Safety Council). Also the study preformed all tests during the day.

4) He was at most 20 ft from the edge of my car - probably 12 ft. The study mentioned above also recommends being further back went clocking a car. Being 200 ft back increases reaction time errors by 51% over 528 ft back. At 528 ft vantage point a vehicle will appear to travel at a constant speed because the car's distance from you is relatively constant. At 12 or 20 ft back the speed appears to increase sharply when passing by because the car is moving quickly to and from your vantage point. Once again affecting anticipatory reaction timing.

5) Also of note during that study: Of the 633 trial runs, 57 were discarded and reran because the officer felt it was inaccurate. My ticketing officer does not have the option to rerun my clocked rate this 9% of the time.

6) Also of note from the study: Computing the reaction time errors for the 576 recorded runs yields a very believable 0.30 sec potential error for the short clocking distance of 100 ft and a 0.30 error potential for the close proximity of 20 ft. Compounding these errors to 0.60 secs for 0.019 miles is 16.3 mph difference at my clocked speed for an estimated speed of 35.7 mph.


Thanks for reading my dilemma. All opinions are appreciated.
 

ken111

Junior Member
Thanks for your opinions guys but they are not helpful. I realize my errors and openly admit to them. I am more so interested in what I should do about this incident at this time and not what I should have done in the past.

Please limit your opinions to one of the 3 opinions:

1) Pay the bill even though that means I will pay a heftier fine and rate hike than "fair"
2) Ask for leniency because it was a mistake I haven't done in over 6 years and now twice in 17 years
3) Fight the ticket because the methods used in these conditions are not accurate

And before more assumptions are made: No I am not over-weight; I am broke because my wife can no longer work due to an injury (we do not believe in government help), we had $15,000 in flooding damage recently, and I lost my full-time status at work; and I was driving 2 extra hours to help a friend with 10 minutes of work. I am a courteous and compassionate person studying to be a nurse (guess I need to bite another one-liner in the bud - no I am not gay).
 

ken111

Junior Member
Also as a courtesy to those that actually want to helpful please do not quote the entirety of a message if not necessary. It really bogs down that thread.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Thanks for your opinions guys but they are not helpful. I realize my errors and openly admit to them. I am more so interested in what I should do about this incident at this time and not what I should have done in the past.

Please limit your opinions to one of the 3 opinions:

1) Pay the bill even though that means I will pay a heftier fine and rate hike than "fair"
2) Ask for leniency because it was a mistake I haven't done in over 6 years and now twice in 17 years
3) Fight the ticket because the methods used in these conditions are not accurate

And before more assumptions are made: No I am not over-weight; I am broke because my wife can no longer work due to an injury (we do not believe in government help), we had $15,000 in flooding damage recently, and I lost my full-time status at work; and I was driving 2 extra hours to help a friend with 10 minutes of work. I am a courteous and compassionate person studying to be a nurse (guess I need to bite another one-liner in the bud - no I am not gay).
Your weight never even crossed my mind, nor did your socio-economic status.
 

ken111

Junior Member
All I am asking for is a little courtesy please and follow the purpose of my thread, which isn't to offer myself to your "crew" as a punching bag.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
All I am asking for is a little courtesy please and follow the purpose of my thread, which isn't to offer myself to your "crew" as a punching bag.
If you want to fight this ticket, then I would suggest that you hire an attorney who is well-versed in this sort of matter.
 

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