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Family size discrimination?

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Lar22

Junior Member
I'm going to describe a situation and would like some advice on whether or not it is considered discrimination. This situation is concerning a small family business. A mother owns the business and has 3 sons and a daughter working there. There are also a few other employees not related to the family. Because she wants to keep things fair between her children, she pays them the same wage with the exception of the daughter who earns slightly less because of her job title. The sons work in different areas of the company, some have more strenuous tasks than others and some work harder than others and are more productive for the company, but all earn the same wage. The company also pays 100% of the health insurance premiums for the children and their families. Son A has a wife and 8 children. Son B is divorced and has 2 children. Son C is divorced and has 1 child. Daughter has a husband and 2 children. It should also be noted that Son A and his wife are both over 50 year while the other sons and daughter are under 50. It is easy to see that Son A's health insurance is the most expensive because of his and his wife's age and their family size. Son B thought it was not fair that the company was paying out more for Son A's health insurance than the other Sons and Daughter. It was brought to the company owner (Mother) and Sons B and C and Daughter are now receiving annual bonuses to match the expense of Son A's health insurance. Example: Son A's insurance is costing the company 22k per year while Sons B and C and daughter's health insurance is costing the company 7k, 5k, and 11k per year respectively. Sons B, C and Daughter are then receiving year-end bonuses of 15k, 17k, and 11k while Son A receives no bonus.

Thoughts on this?
(Minnesota)
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I'm going to describe a situation and would like some advice on whether or not it is considered discrimination. This situation is concerning a small family business. A mother owns the business and has 3 sons and a daughter working there. There are also a few other employees not related to the family. Because she wants to keep things fair between her children, she pays them the same wage with the exception of the daughter who earns slightly less because of her job title. The sons work in different areas of the company, some have more strenuous tasks than others and some work harder than others and are more productive for the company, but all earn the same wage. The company also pays 100% of the health insurance premiums for the children and their families. Son A has a wife and 8 children. Son B is divorced and has 2 children. Son C is divorced and has 1 child. Daughter has a husband and 2 children. It should also be noted that Son A and his wife are both over 50 year while the other sons and daughter are under 50. It is easy to see that Son A's health insurance is the most expensive because of his and his wife's age and their family size. Son B thought it was not fair that the company was paying out more for Son A's health insurance than the other Sons and Daughter. It was brought to the company owner (Mother) and Sons B and C and Daughter are now receiving annual bonuses to match the expense of Son A's health insurance. Example: Son A's insurance is costing the company 22k per year while Sons B and C and daughter's health insurance is costing the company 7k, 5k, and 11k per year respectively. Sons B, C and Daughter are then receiving year-end bonuses of 15k, 17k, and 11k while Son A receives no bonus.

Thoughts on this?
(Minnesota)
It seems to me that it's a private business, so it's private business. Nothing illegal is occurring.

Who are you in this?
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
And how is any of this any of your business? Who are you in this scenario?

(FYI, given exactly what I do for a living, I am probably better qualified to answer this question than anyone else on this board, so you may assume that if I ask a question there is a reason for it.)
 

eerelations

Senior Member
Yep, it's discrimination all right!

However, that said, I suspect you were really asking if this is illegal discrimination. If indeed that's what you were asking, the answer is no, it's not illegal discrimination. Discrimination is only illegal if it's based specifically and directly on protected characteristics such as race, gender, religion, age, disability and/or reporting the company's illegal activities to the relevant judicial authorities. Nothing in your post indicates that your mother is discriminating against some/all of her children for any of these reasons.
 

Lar22

Junior Member
And how is any of this any of your business? Who are you in this scenario?

(FYI, given exactly what I do for a living, I am probably better qualified to answer this question than anyone else on this board, so you may assume that if I ask a question there is a reason for it.)
I am a child of Son A in this scenario. It's a tough situation to decipher because there are a few ways of looking at it. My family sees it in the way that my father's siblings are making money off of the size of his family (if his insurance costs less, they don't get large bonuses). The siblings say that they're "evening things out across the board." It could also be seen as each child getting 22k to cover the cost of insurance - Son A uses it all for his insurance while Sons B and C and Daughter have x amount leftover to take home after covering their insurances. However, for the past 20+ years, the Sons didn't know how much was being paid out for the others' insurance because it was private information. Daughter took care of all of the insurance and so she did have access to the information. Once Son B found out how much Son A's insurance was, he raised a fuss.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
I am a child of Son A in this scenario. It's a tough situation to decipher because there are a few ways of looking at it. My family sees it in the way that my father's siblings are making money off of the size of his family (if his insurance costs less, they don't get large bonuses). The siblings say that they're "evening things out across the board." It could also be seen as each child getting 22k to cover the cost of insurance - Son A uses it all for his insurance while Sons B and C and Daughter have x amount leftover to take home after covering their insurances. However, for the past 20+ years, the Sons didn't know how much was being paid out for the others' insurance because it was private information. Daughter took care of all of the insurance and so she did have access to the information. Once Son B found out how much Son A's insurance was, he raised a fuss.
Not your business. Not illegal.
 

Lar22

Junior Member
Yep, it's discrimination all right!

However, that said, I suspect you were really asking if this is illegal discrimination. If indeed that's what you were asking, the answer is no, it's not illegal discrimination. Discrimination is only illegal if it's based specifically and directly on protected characteristics such as race, gender, religion, age, disability and/or reporting the company's illegal activities to the relevant judicial authorities. Nothing in your post indicates that your mother is discriminating against some/all of her children for any of these reasons.
Although it seems unfair, I do believe it is probably legal. I'm just wondering if there are any guidelines to how employers provide insurance to employees. Although being that it's a private company, there probably isn't much.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
Thanks for the input. My parents are very open with their children on this and as it directly affects my immediate family, it IS my business.
Interesting. That's what girlfriends and boyfriends say about their SO's children and support payments and court cases, over in the Family Law section.

It's not your legal business. It's the owner's business, and if her employees are not happy they can take it up with her. You've already been given the legal answer to your question, anyway. :cool:
 

ajkroy

Member
What the employers are paying for Son A's insurance is not that much (although it does depend on deductibles and other OOPs). I am a family of 2 (43 and 19) and my employer paid over $22K for my family last year, while I pay a monthly premium of $303. The average family plan costs roughly $2000 per month.

I say don't rock the boat. Any bonus you might demand could magically disappear and you might be stuck paying for your own insurance.

...at least, that is how I would play it if my kids started squabbling this way.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
There are any number of ways of handling employee insurance, and almost all of them are legal. However, it is almost certain that while MAYBE the employer is paying less for Son C than any of the others, the rate for all the rest is the same. It is rare, rare, rare indeed for the number of children in the family to affect the rate charged by the insurance carrier to the employer - the family rate is the family rate regardless of how many members. SOMETIMES if there is only one dependent that triggers a different rate so IF that is the case AND IF Son C is not continuing to cover his ex-spouse (which can and does happen) then MAYBE the cost to the employer is different for him. Otherwise, the size of family is most unlikely to have anything to do with it.

As to any bonus arrangements between the mother and her children, legally that is none of your business no matter how open your family is about finances. You have no say in it; EVEN IF it were illegal, which it is not, there would be nothing you could do about it.
 

Lar22

Junior Member
Interesting. That's what girlfriends and boyfriends say about their SO's children and support payments and court cases, over in the Family Law section.

It's not your legal business. It's the owner's business, and if her employees are not happy they can take it up with her. You've already been given the legal answer to your question, anyway. :cool:
Okay, I do understand that it's not my LEGAL business. I deserved that. My parents have taken it up a bit but were wondering whether they had a grounds to pursue it legally which it seems they don't.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
There are any number of ways of handling employee insurance, and almost all of them are legal. However, it is almost certain that while MAYBE the employer is paying less for Son C than any of the others, the rate for all the rest is the same. It is rare, rare, rare indeed for the number of children in the family to affect the rate charged by the insurance carrier to the employer - the family rate is the family rate regardless of how many members. SOMETIMES if there is only one dependent that triggers a different rate so IF that is the case AND IF Son C is not continuing to cover his ex-spouse (which can and does happen) then MAYBE the cost to the employer is different for him. Otherwise, the size of family is most unlikely to have anything to do with it.

As to any bonus arrangements between the mother and her children, legally that is none of your business no matter how open your family is about finances. You have no say in it; EVEN IF it were illegal, which it is not, there would be nothing you could do about it.
This is a case though of a very small employer. They may not have a group situation they may be providing individual polices. If that is the case then family size is more significant.
 

Lar22

Junior Member
There are any number of ways of handling employee insurance, and almost all of them are legal. However, it is almost certain that while MAYBE the employer is paying less for Son C than any of the others, the rate for all the rest is the same. It is rare, rare, rare indeed for the number of children in the family to affect the rate charged by the insurance carrier to the employer - the family rate is the family rate regardless of how many members. SOMETIMES if there is only one dependent that triggers a different rate so IF that is the case AND IF Son C is not continuing to cover his ex-spouse (which can and does happen) then MAYBE the cost to the employer is different for him. Otherwise, the size of family is most unlikely to have anything to do with it.

As to any bonus arrangements between the mother and her children, legally that is none of your business no matter how open your family is about finances. You have no say in it; EVEN IF it were illegal, which it is not, there would be nothing you could do about it.
No, there is nothing I would be able to do about it - I should have mentioned I was researching it for my parents. They were provided with the actual numbers and the rates differed based on number of adults and dependents. Anything over 3 dependents would be the same rate, but Son A was the only one with 3+ dependents while the others had either 1 adult and 1 or 2 dependents or 2 adults and 2 dependents. However, beginning this coming year, the insurance company was going to charge for each dependent so it was going to be going up significantly more, meaning that bonuses would be increasing as well. The Sons are not covering their ex-wives.

Now we know this is more of a family problem than a legal situation - which is all I needed to know, so thanks for the information!
 

Lar22

Junior Member
What the employers are paying for Son A's insurance is not that much (although it does depend on deductibles and other OOPs). I am a family of 2 (43 and 19) and my employer paid over $22K for my family last year, while I pay a monthly premium of $303. The average family plan costs roughly $2000 per month.

I say don't rock the boat. Any bonus you might demand could magically disappear and you might be stuck paying for your own insurance.

...at least, that is how I would play it if my kids started squabbling this way.
I do know that the deductibles were pretty high, and the coverage was not that great. It would more be a case of getting rid of the other bonuses versus demanding a bonus. My parents are now choosing to purchase their own insurance versus having the company pay because they do not want the other siblings getting bonuses off of them.
 

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