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Failure to Comply (Police) at toll on Whitestone Bridge

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slaru88

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I received a Failure to Comply ticket at the Whitestone Bridge Toll plaza. The details of the ticket are the following:
in violation of = 1102
VTL = box filled
TR INF = box filled

As I approached the toll, I was in the farthest lane to the left, the lane next to me started backing up. I slowed down and started to go through the ez pass. As I was going through, I noticed the officer with his back turned wave his arms. I continued through watching him but without hitting the gas. He then turned around and slammed on my wife's (passenger side) window and yelled to stop. I immediately stopped and he went ahead of my car and moved another vehicle over from the lane next to me and positioned that car in front of mine. He then came over yelling and screaming saying he told me to stop and I looked at him with a glazed look. Wanted to know why I didn't stop. I took offense at his aggressiveness and said he was next to my car when he first waved his hand. Then I told him to calm down because I had 3 young kids in the car. Could clearly tell he was having a bad day. Ended up getting this ticket because of the yelling to begin the conversation. He didn't ask for my license and registration until he got annoyed with me yelling back about his position next to my car and slamming my window. I think I was in protection mode because of my family being in the car. I really think the only reason he gave me the ticket was because I yelled back. Do I have any chance of beating this ticket?
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I received a Failure to Comply ticket at the Whitestone Bridge Toll plaza. The details of the ticket are the following:
in violation of = 1102
VTL = box filled
TR INF = box filled

As I approached the toll, I was in the farthest lane to the left, the lane next to me started backing up. I slowed down and started to go through the ez pass. As I was going through, I noticed the officer with his back turned wave his arms. I continued through watching him but without hitting the gas. He then turned around and slammed on my wife's (passenger side) window and yelled to stop. I immediately stopped and he went ahead of my car and moved another vehicle over from the lane next to me and positioned that car in front of mine. He then came over yelling and screaming saying he told me to stop and I looked at him with a glazed look. Wanted to know why I didn't stop. I took offense at his aggressiveness and said he was next to my car when he first waved his hand. Then I told him to calm down because I had 3 young kids in the car. Could clearly tell he was having a bad day. Ended up getting this ticket because of the yelling to begin the conversation. He didn't ask for my license and registration until he got annoyed with me yelling back about his position next to my car and slamming my window. I think I was in protection mode because of my family being in the car. I really think the only reason he gave me the ticket was because I yelled back. Do I have any chance of beating this ticket?
Are you saying that your defense is that he was mad at you for disrespecting him? Is that your only defense? Or, are you trying to say that you stopped as lawfully directed and got a ticket anyway?
 

slaru88

Junior Member
Think the whole wave of the arm was a gray area to me. He was next to my car towards the front on the medium between the toll lanes. I think I was still processing what to do - hence the glazed look according to the police officer and then he slammed my window which got me to stop immediately. I'm sure if he would have yelled stop the car or was in front coming into the lane, I would have stopped right away. Instead he was on the medium with his back turned using an arm wave.

Is an arm wave enough to get failure to comply? I still think it was gray area because of where he was when I was going through the toll.
 

slaru88

Junior Member
did you believe he was waving at you?
yes, because it was directed towards my lane. I still think the officer was overly aggressive and his actions ridiculous. Plus for my car and where it was going through the toll, it was a late arm wave to stop in my opinion. I think I could have easily continued with no issue and he should have just stopped the next car.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
yes, because it was directed towards my lane. I still think the officer was overly aggressive and his actions ridiculous. Plus for my car and where it was going through the toll, it was a late arm wave to stop in my opinion. I think I could have easily continued with no issue and he should have just stopped the next car.

so you believed he was waving at you yet you did ignore him. That makes you guilty.

as to the rest; maybe he was having a bad day but the fact you were refusing to comply with his directive tends to be considered causing them a bad day.

what you believe regarding you continuing is irrelevant. He motioned for you to stop so that is what you do.
 

slaru88

Junior Member
so you believed he was waving at you yet you did ignore him. That makes you guilty.

as to the rest; maybe he was having a bad day but the fact you were refusing to comply with his directive tends to be considered causing them a bad day.

what you believe regarding you continuing is irrelevant. He motioned for you to stop so that is what you do.
I did stop right when he hit my window which was 1-2 seconds after the wave. It all happened so fast so that is my point. The wave didn't give me a lot of time to react. What is a reasonable reaction time? Should I be guilty if I don't stop immediately vs a few seconds after?
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
It wasn't a police officer who wrote you it was a bridge and tunnel officer. They are not the police and they are known to have, uh, professionalism issues.

Feel free to make a complaint by contacting MTA Bridges and Tunnels, aka the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority.

As far as the ticket goes, it doesn't sound to me as if it was justified, even if you consider his waving to be a lawful order. Are you saying that his back was facing you as he waved? That part of it seems very unclear to me and I don't really understand what the whole situation was. Why was it that he wanted you to stop to begin with?

Legally speaking, an Administrative Law Judge in the Bronx (Judge Sica) advised me once that there is appeals board "case law" which specifies that for an 1102 violation to be valid it must involve clear verbal communication between the officer and motorist. Whether other judges would know that I don't know and I am not sure how you would even get this information to confirm it.

In any event, I would say you have better than an even chance of winning if you stick to the facts in court and avoid all the emotional nonsense. You may want to consider hiring an attorney, preferably one who is a regular in the Bronx TVB. This violation does carry a penalty of two points in addition to the monetary fine.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
HighwayMan;3305552
As far as the ticket goes, it doesn't sound to me as if it was justified, even if you consider his waving to be a lawful order. Are you saying that his back was facing you as he waved? That part of it seems very unclear to me and I don't really understand what the whole situation was. Why was it that he wanted you to stop to begin with?
the OP admits he understood the signal to be directed towards him. Regardless of the officer having his back to the OP or not, OP understood the action. OP's argument is that he did not have enough time to react before the officer physically contacted OP's vehicle with the intent to cause the OP to stop. I would think if the officer did not allow adequate time for the OP to react, then he would have a valid argument against the ticket but otherwise, I do not understand why he would not be considered guilty.

Legally speaking, an Administrative Law Judge in the Bronx (Judge Sica) advised me once that there is appeals board "case law" which specifies that for an 1102 violation to be valid it must involve clear verbal communication between the officer and motorist. Whether other judges would know that I don't know and I am not sure how you would even get this information to confirm it.
that makes no sense. That would require an officer be within a close enough proximity that a verbal command could be heard. Considering the weather, windows are going to be closed. I can assure you it is nearly impossible for me to hear a clear verbal communication while I am in my vehicle with the windows closed unless the speaker is nearly in contact with the windows of my vehicle. Such a requirement is simply beyond realistic.

that would mean they could not demand I comply with their manual directives if they were more than a few feet away from my car. God forbid they are on the other side of a couple lanes.


Not that I'm trying to argue against your knowledge on the issue. Just saying it doesn't make a lot of sense.
 

davew128

Senior Member
the OP admits he understood the signal to be directed towards him. Regardless of the officer having his back to the OP or not, OP understood the action. OP's argument is that he did not have enough time to react before the officer physically contacted OP's vehicle with the intent to cause the OP to stop. I would think if the officer did not allow adequate time for the OP to react, then he would have a valid argument against the ticket but otherwise, I do not understand why he would not be considered guilty.
Just to play devil's advocate here, I know personally many times trying to comprehend visual signals has been a challenge. Is the command directed at you? What's he trying to get you to do? Where to go? Not always easy. Not the case here but a pretty reasonable argument otherwise.
 

slaru88

Junior Member
It wasn't a police officer who wrote you it was a bridge and tunnel officer. They are not the police and they are known to have, uh, professionalism issues.

Feel free to make a complaint by contacting MTA Bridges and Tunnels, aka the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority.

As far as the ticket goes, it doesn't sound to me as if it was justified, even if you consider his waving to be a lawful order. Are you saying that his back was facing you as he waved? That part of it seems very unclear to me and I don't really understand what the whole situation was. Why was it that he wanted you to stop to begin with?

Legally speaking, an Administrative Law Judge in the Bronx (Judge Sica) advised me once that there is appeals board "case law" which specifies that for an 1102 violation to be valid it must involve clear verbal communication between the officer and motorist. Whether other judges would know that I don't know and I am not sure how you would even get this information to confirm it.

In any event, I would say you have better than an even chance of winning if you stick to the facts in court and avoid all the emotional nonsense. You may want to consider hiring an attorney, preferably one who is a regular in the Bronx TVB. This violation does carry a penalty of two points in addition to the monetary fine.
When I first saw him his back was turned looking at the car in the next lane with his arm out towards my lane. I was in the far left hand lane of the toll plaza. He wanted my lane to stop so he could get the car in the lane next to me to pull over, all the way to the left after the toll booth. I told my wife the same thing about him looking at me and just yelling to stop and I would have stopped. Again, it was so quick that this all happened. I think he was on the medium between the lanes the whole time so my car was right next to him so no issue hearing him yell even with the windows up. I spoke to someone locally who suggested the same things = complaint with MTA and to plead not guilty. I may also look into an attorney depending upon cost.

The officer did write under the description Failure to Comply (Police) so I thought he was a police officer. In front of his name it says PTO or BTO, I can't make out the first letter.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Just to play devil's advocate here, I know personally many times trying to comprehend visual signals has been a challenge. Is the command directed at you? What's he trying to get you to do? Where to go? Not always easy. Not the case here but a pretty reasonable argument otherwise.

I don't disagree but that is why I asked the OP what I did. OP stated he understood the directive to be for him.


the only real arguable point, to me, is whether the officer reacted to the lack of compliance too quickly.
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
that makes no sense. That would require an officer be within a close enough proximity that a verbal command could be heard. Considering the weather, windows are going to be closed. I can assure you it is nearly impossible for me to hear a clear verbal communication while I am in my vehicle with the windows closed unless the speaker is nearly in contact with the windows of my vehicle. Such a requirement is simply beyond realistic.
I think part of the problem here is understanding the layout of the toll plaza at the bridge. It's a mess, to say the least. Not a lot of good photos online, but here's one from the MTA which gives you an idea from ground level: http://www.mta.info/sites/default/files/archive/imgs/bronx-whitestone-bridge-toll-plaza.jpg, and here is a Google earth of the whole thing: http://i.imgur.com/ZRVqMFL.jpg.

The little white hand cursor marks the "EZ Pass ScrewUp Spot" - the place where dummies without a pass/didn't replenish their pass are directed to park while they wait for their ticket. People in the left lane (actually the middle of the photo) are spit out right into the back of these dummies. It sounds like the TBTA officer wanted to stop the last line from going through the gate in order to let the dummy from the adjacent lane make his way to the penalty box.

In general, there are officers crossing lanes, both before and after the gates, like crazy. When they're before the gate, they stand on the island between lanes facing oncoming traffic. They hold up one or both hands in the universal "stop" sign. They wait and observe the car is actually stopping. They usually also make eye contact with the driver. Given the vast, vast majority do it this way, I assume that is how they are trained. I have never heard anyone actually say "stop" though.

In an emergency, they may be anywhere though - front, back, sides, so the specifics will obviously matter. I suspect that if the officer was close enough to OPs car to touch it, OP may have some difficulty proving up his defense. (However, given the number of yahoos that the officers must deal with on a daily basis, the odds of an officer specifically recalling the details about any one of them seems slim).
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
Not that I'm trying to argue against your knowledge on the issue. Just saying it doesn't make a lot of sense.
I'm just relaying what the judge told me. What the original intent of the statute was is unknown to me, but the Traffic Violations Bureau is certainly free to have their own interpretation.

Personally I agree with you, but I also see Dave's point about lack of clarity of the hand signals. I believe that to be the reason why the TVB has a stricter interpretation of this particular statute.
 

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