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Trespassing with Property Damage

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slw9999

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Virginia

There are lots of details that I'm willing to share if asked, but keeping this as brief as possible.

We have pictures of the neighbor kids (14 & 17) coming about 500 feet onto our property (not bordering theirs, plus our property is posted, fenced & gated) to remove one of their dogs from our live trap. We had no idea their dogs came down there (they have 5 they let run loose as the county doesn't have a leash law)> The Sheriff's dept was notified, they asked them, they admitted, mother said they'd pay if we did not press charges, we agreed on that condition.

The father called us the next day, left a message, then promptly blocked our number so I sent a demand letter a week later - certified mail. He then called to accuse us of trapping out of season, not visiting the trap daily, transporting animals to other sites, etc. The only thing we were doing is maybe trapping out of season because we didn't know what we were trapping - only trying to find out what kind of predator had moved in. It's legal for us to trap coyote, skunk or feral cats (gray area there) year round, but we can only kill (not trap) foxes, raccoons & many other predators year round. We thought if we could kill, we could trap, so our bad on that & we'll take the ticket if needed. However, the game warden is not interested in filing charges. We didn't actually catch anything but puppies, which we would have gladly released.

His defense is that he won't pay because the traps were there illegally. We don't really care about the traps - an apology would have been fine - we were more concerned about the trespassing.

While this was going on, the deputy went on vacation for a month & no one else in the sherriff's office would handle the case. Now that he's back, I've been told the case was closed because 1) we agreed to work it out (I agreed on the condition that they paid & he said I could call him if they didn't & he didn't mention the month of vacation at the time) and 2) the commonwealth's attorney looked at it & closed it because the damage wasn't malicioius.

My questions -
1. Can they just close a case without notifiying me? Can I make them open it back up?
2. If I file a civil case, what are my options? I know about property damage, but our real issue is the trespassing.
3. If we were trapping illegally, does that cancel out our property damage claim? or are those two separate issues?
4. He has told the neighbors (they stop us to tell us on the way in) that he says we're getting tickets & we did xyz & to make sure we know he has a concealed weapons permit. Is there anything we can do about this?

Thank you for taking time to read this. I probably included way more details that anyone wanted to read.
This whole thing makes me feel like I'm acting crazy, but at this point, I feel like I have to follow through with something to defend my property rights.
 
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Just Blue

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Virginia

There are lots of details that I'm willing to share if asked, but keeping this as brief as possible.

We have pictures of the neighbor kids (14 & 17) coming about 500 feet onto our property (not bordering theirs, plus our property is posted, fenced & gated) to remove one of their dogs from our live trap. We had no idea their dogs came down there (they have 5 they let run loose as the county doesn't have a leash law)> The Sheriff's dept was notified, they asked them, they admitted, mother said they'd pay if we did not press charges, we agreed on that condition.

The father called us the next day, left a message, then promptly blocked our number so I sent a demand letter a week later - certified mail. He then called to accuse us of trapping out of season, not visiting the trap daily, transporting animals to other sites, etc. The only thing we were doing is maybe trapping out of season because we didn't know what we were trapping - only trying to find out what kind of predator had moved in. It's legal for us to trap coyote, skunk or feral cats (gray area there) year round, but we can only kill (not trap) foxes, raccoons & many other predators year round. We thought if we could kill, we could trap, so our bad on that & we'll take the ticket if needed. However, the game warden is not interested in filing charges. We didn't actually catch anything but puppies, which we would have gladly released.

His defense is that he won't pay because the traps were there illegally. We don't really care about the traps - an apology would have been fine - we were more concerned about the trespassing.

While this was going on, the deputy went on vacation for a month & no one else in the sherriff's office would handle the case. Now that he's back, I've been told the case was closed because 1) we agreed to work it out (I agreed on the condition that they paid & he said I could call him if they didn't & he didn't mention the month of vacation at the time) and 2) the commonwealth's attorney looked at it & closed it because the damage wasn't malicioius.

My questions -
1. Can they just close a case without notifiying me? Can I make them open it back up?
2. If I file a civil case, what are my options? I know about property damage, but our real issue is the trespassing.
3. If we were trapping illegally, does that cancel out our property damage claim? or are those two separate issues?
4. He has told the neighbors (they stop us to tell us on the way in) that he says we're getting tickets & we did xyz & to make sure we know he has a concealed weapons permit. Is there anything we can do about this?

Thank you for taking time to read this. I probably included way more details that anyone wanted to read.
This whole thing makes me feel like I'm acting crazy, but at this point, I feel like I have to follow through with something to defend my property rights.
I really think you should talk to an attorney. I love animals...but this was your secured property and I "think" the neighbor is wrong.
 

slw9999

Junior Member
I really think you should talk to an attorney. I love animals...but this was your secured property and I "think" the neighbor is wrong.
Thank you for the opinion. We love animals too and have quite a few pets of our own.

We would never have hurt their dogs as we don't think it's the animal's fault, and we still see them running all around the property at all hours of the day & night on the game cameras. We haven't replaced the trap, so they can't get caught in it again.

We'd probably even have let whatever we caught go - that's what we've always done in the past. We were just trying to figure out why our colony of wild rabbits had suddenly disappeared.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
Thank you for the opinion. We love animals too and have quite a few pets of our own.

We would never have hurt their dogs as we don't think it's the animal's fault, and we still see them running all around the property at all hours of the day & night on the game cameras. We haven't replaced the trap, so they can't get caught in it again.

We'd probably even have let whatever we caught go - that's what we've always done in the past. We were just trying to figure out why our colony of wild rabbits had suddenly disappeared.
I would really talk to an attorney...I think they are trying to bully you.

I gotta like a total stranger on the net that is concerned about wild rabbits...lol...Most people would be happy to see them gone.

God Bless and Happy Holidays!!

Blue
 

slw9999

Junior Member
I would really talk to an attorney...I think they are trying to bully you.

I gotta like a total stranger on the net that is concerned about wild rabbits...lol...Most people would be happy to see them gone.

God Bless and Happy Holidays!!

Blue

I didn't want to call him a bully because that would make me sound like a whiner - but that's what we think he's trying to do.

Most of the other neighbors have told us stuff that makes it seems like he just wants to push everyone around as well, but he's in for a surprise - we don't push.

The attorney is a great idea, but it's always nice to know if I sound crazy or not in other people's eyes before I call.

I hope you have a great holiday too!
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
I didn't want to call him a bully because that would make me sound like a whiner - but that's what we think he's trying to do.

Most of the other neighbors have told us stuff that makes it seems like he just wants to push everyone around as well, but he's in for a surprise - we don't push.

The attorney is a great idea, but it's always nice to know if I sound crazy or not in other people's eyes before I call.

I hope you have a great holiday too!
No...You don't sound "crazy" at all. You seem very reasonable. Actually MORE than reasonable.

Good luck to you...Hopefully it works out well for you..
Blue
 

slw9999

Junior Member
No...You don't sound "crazy" at all. You seem very reasonable. Actually MORE than reasonable.

Good luck to you...Hopefully it works out well for you..
Blue
I'll make sure I update this post later with whatever we decide to do or not do - and the outcome.

We really don't feel like getting the kids in trouble when they readily admitted what they did, so this might be a good thing.
We know he crosses the front portion that's posted but not fenced fairly often to run his mouth to the neighbor.
Nothing stops us from moving a camera, gathering evidence & calling the sheriff again.

Oh - I forgot to add, he's the chief of the local fire department. Sure hope we never have a fire ....
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I've been told the case was closed because 1) we agreed to work it out (I agreed on the condition that they paid & he said I could call him if they didn't & he didn't mention the month of vacation at the time) and 2) the commonwealth's attorney looked at it & closed it because the damage wasn't malicioius.
Then it would seem that any criminal prosecution is not gonna happen. Part of the problem likely stems from your willingness to work out a civil agreement as this often transfers the matter from the criminal to the civil realm. And, the state's attorney has sole discretion for prosecution and if he doesn't want to file, it's not going to get filed and no law requires him to pursue it.

My questions -
1. Can they just close a case without notifiying me?
Yes.

Can I make them open it back up?
No. You can ask, beg, cajole, plead, and cry, but you cannot compel the sheriff's department to investigate or the prosecutor to file.

2. If I file a civil case, what are my options? I know about property damage, but our real issue is the trespassing.
Without damage, none, really, unless VA provides for statutory civil damages for trespassing.

3. If we were trapping illegally, does that cancel out our property damage claim? or are those two separate issues?
It's probably two separate issues. Though your civil claim for trespassing might be made more difficult if you were to be charged with a crime for unlawful trapping.

4. He has told the neighbors (they stop us to tell us on the way in) that he says we're getting tickets & we did xyz & to make sure we know he has a concealed weapons permit. Is there anything we can do about this?
If you get a citation then you consult legal counsel and address the charges in court.
 

slw9999

Junior Member
Then it would seem that any criminal prosecution is not gonna happen. Part of the problem likely stems from your willingness to work out a civil agreement as this often transfers the matter from the criminal to the civil realm. And, the state's attorney has sole discretion for prosecution and if he doesn't want to file, it's not going to get filed and no law requires him to pursue it.


Yes.


No. You can ask, beg, cajole, plead, and cry, but you cannot compel the sheriff's department to investigate or the prosecutor to file.


Without damage, none, really, unless VA provides for statutory civil damages for trespassing.


It's probably two separate issues. Though your civil claim for trespassing might be made more difficult if you were to be charged with a crime for unlawful trapping.


If you get a citation then you consult legal counsel and address the charges in court.
Thank you - that gives me a lot to think about.

However, at this point, I'm more about making a point than any financial compensation. The cost of the traps is negligible, as is any fine for illegal trapping.
My goal is to make sure they know that I'm not afraid of them and that trespassing will not be tolerated.

I did learn one lesson though - always press charges. It's a shame it has to be that way.

What kind of lawyer would you look for to get advice about this? Is it just general law?
I'd think real estate attorneys usually just handle sales.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
What do you think you need an attorney for? An attorney is not permitted in Small Claims Court, and you will be limited by the amount of any claim for damages.

http://www.courts.state.va.us/resources/small_claims_court_procedures.pdf

And, even if you "press charges" the state's attorney can choose not to pursue it. Though you can go to the magistrate's office to swear out a warrant against someone for certain offenses ... though there is still no guarantee that you would prevail, and you could be liable for a false arrest if the matter is without probable cause.
 

slw9999

Junior Member
I still have not gotten it - what is the actual damage that you have?
Our actual damage is that they kicked in 2 steel live-traps on 2 separate occasions - it would be approximately $120 to replace them.

It's a nominal amount, but this isn't about the money.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Our actual damage is that they kicked in 2 steel live-traps on 2 separate occasions - it would be approximately $120 to replace them.

It's a nominal amount, but this isn't about the money.
Lawsuits ARE about money. So, if you sue, it'll be to recover your losses. A lawsuit won't put them in jail or make them apologize.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
While I would normally point out that trespass itself can incur punitive damages, I think any jury in the country would excuse trespass by two teenagers rescuing their dog from a live trap.
 

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