Teacher espousing atheist views

[Proserpina]

Clarification after talking to grandson...not arguing against Christian beliefs
but against the existence of God.

In other words, you have at best second-hand information which may (or may not) represent what actually happened.

 

[Mike22]

In other words, you have at best second-hand information which may (or may not) represent what actually happened.

I was not there as I am 61 years old. It is not allowed to record the classroom activities, so that's all I've got at this point.
How can I get "first-hand info"? Also, not just coincidentally, I surmise**************my grandson is right this minute doing an assignment
on a book written by noted atheist Ayn Rand. The original argument presented in class was not in the context of this book. The classroom teacher,
openly gay, also has a book "Two Boys Kissing" on his original required reading list, removed after we complained. It has become obvious
to us that has has an agenda other than introducing ninth graders to the world of literature. So my question, now stated devoid of ambiguity, is "What legal avenues do we have if it can be proven that a public school teacher is arguing in favor of atheism ( the denial of God) in a classroom setting?" As a follow-up to that question:
" What manner of proof would be needed?"

 

[TigerD]

I was not there as I am 61 years old. It is not allowed to record the classroom activities, so that's all I've got at this point.
How can I get "first-hand info"? Also, not just coincidentally, I surmise**************my grandson is right this minute doing an assignment
on a book written by noted atheist Ayn Rand. The original argument presented in class was not in the context of this book. The classroom teacher,
openly gay, also has a book "Two Boys Kissing" on his original required reading list, removed after we complained. It has become obvious
to us that has has an agenda other than introducing ninth graders to the world of literature. So my question, now stated devoid of ambiguity, is "What legal avenues do we have if it can be proven that a public school teacher is arguing in favor of atheism ( the denial of God) in a classroom setting?" As a follow-up to that question:
" What manner of proof would be needed?"

You seem to be incapable of interacting with a secular society. Have you considered placing him in a private school?

TD

 

[cbg]

Are you suggesting that the teacher is supposed to espouse the existence of God in the classroom?

 

[Proserpina]

I was not there as I am 61 years old. It is not allowed to record the classroom activities, so that's all I've got at this point.
How can I get "first-hand info"? Also, not just coincidentally, I surmise**************my grandson is right this minute doing an assignment
on a book written by noted atheist Ayn Rand. The original argument presented in class was not in the context of this book. The classroom teacher,
openly gay, also has a book "Two Boys Kissing" on his original required reading list, removed after we complained. It has become obvious
to us that has has an agenda other than introducing ninth graders to the world of literature. So my question, now stated devoid of ambiguity, is "What legal avenues do we have if it can be proven that a public school teacher is arguing in favor of atheism ( the denial of God) in a classroom setting?" As a follow-up to that question:
" What manner of proof would be needed?"

Well, let's just hope your grandson manages to open his mind a wee bit more than his grandparent.

 

[ajkroy]

As an atheist and a high school teacher, I can tell you that it rarely comes up in my classes (and I never bring it up). Some of my students notice that I do not say "under god" when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance every morning and have asked, others ask outright. I have fostered open discussion about many religions in my classroom, and as long as I discuss each with respect and do not disparage any, I am not breaking the law (of course I wouldn't promote any).

Of all of the teachers on my team, half are atheist. I expect that OP's grandson is being taught by (and enjoying the readings of) more atheists than he thinks.

 

[quincy]

I was not there as I am 61 years old. It is not allowed to record the classroom activities, so that's all I've got at this point.
How can I get "first-hand info"? Also, not just coincidentally, I surmise**************my grandson is right this minute doing an assignment
on a book written by noted atheist Ayn Rand. The original argument presented in class was not in the context of this book. The classroom teacher,
openly gay, also has a book "Two Boys Kissing" on his original required reading list, removed after we complained. It has become obvious
to us that has has an agenda other than introducing ninth graders to the world of literature. So my question, now stated devoid of ambiguity, is "What legal avenues do we have if it can be proven that a public school teacher is arguing in favor of atheism ( the denial of God) in a classroom setting?" As a follow-up to that question:
" What manner of proof would be needed?"

Mike, here is a link to the ACLU's "Joint Statement of Current Law on Religion in the Public Schools" which can give you an idea of where your grandson's teacher stands legally: https://www.aclu.org/joint-statement-current-law-religion-public-schools

Malcolm Forbes once said: "The purpose of education is to replace an empty mind with an open one." I like that your grandson's teacher is presenting to his students a variety of books that will serve to challenge them and make them think.

Although I support your efforts to teach your grandson what you think and believe, I hope you do not deny your grandson an education into how others think and believe. We are living in a diverse world. Your grandson should know something about it.

 

[Mike22]

Wow. Here are the questions. Got answers?


"What legal avenues do we have if it can be proven that a public school teacher is arguing in favor of atheism ( the denial of God) in a classroom setting?" As a follow-up to that question:
" What manner of proof would be needed?"

 

[Mike22]

Are you suggesting that the teacher is supposed to espouse the existence of God in the classroom?

How did you read that into anything I said?

 

[cbg]

What legal avenues do we have if it can be proven that a public school teacher is arguing in favor of atheism ( the denial of God) in a classroom setting?"

Very likely none.

 

[quincy]

Wow. Here are the questions. Got answers?


"What legal avenues do we have if it can be proven that a public school teacher is arguing in favor of atheism ( the denial of God) in a classroom setting?" As a follow-up to that question:
" What manner of proof would be needed?"

Proof will be difficult.

You would need to show that the religious (or anti-religious) remarks being made by the teacher are not being made to spur discussion in the classroom. If the classroom is reading a novel by Ayn Rand, a discussion of atheism would be a natural topic.

Read through the information provided by the ACLU on what is legal in a classroom and what might be crossing the line into religious teachings. If you are not the legal guardian of your grandson, however, there is really little you can do from a legal standpoint. If you are the legal guardian, you could speak with an attorney in your area to see what the attorney has to say. In the meantime, I would not make any public comments about your grandson's teacher that cannot be supported with facts.

 

[CdwJava]

Literature teacher holding a discussion. He holds the view that Christianity is not based on facts.
Listens to a refutation of his position and further argues his point.

Depending on the content of the discussion, this may or may not be an issue.

I had a philosophy professor once who would take controversial points, and then he would flip them around.

The issue here might be whether or not he provides a diminished grade for views that are contrary to his personal beliefs solely because they ARE contrary to his beliefs. Sadly, I know of teachers that do just that, but primarily for political philosophy/affiliation as opposed to atheistic views.

 

[CdwJava]

Wow. Here are the questions. Got answers?


"What legal avenues do we have if it can be proven that a public school teacher is arguing in favor of atheism ( the denial of God) in a classroom setting?" As a follow-up to that question:
" What manner of proof would be needed?"

I don't see that there are any LEGAL avenues to pursue, yet. It is unclear that the teacher is doing anything unlawful. Arguably, he is trying to foster discussion of differing ideas.

I think I mentioned some time back the avenues you must look at, first. The student's GUARDIAN (if that's you, great, if not, then THEY need to do this) can ask to meet with the teacher and discuss the issue. If you or they are not satisfied with the response, they may then meet with the school administration. If they are still not satisfied, perhaps they can ask to transfer him to a different class. From what you have thus far written, I don't know if there is anywhere near sufficient grounds to SUE anyone or take any other legal action.

Keep in mind that I am speaking to you as one who believes in the Bible, is an evangelical Christian, has had four sons survive public school, and also teaches high school (and my wife teaches elementary school). There are a great many challenges to people of faith within the public school system (particularly in CA), and I have had to fight that battle a couple of times over the years. But, each such "fight" was relatively easy and they were each resolved with a polite conversation and non-confrontational meeting with a teacher or an administrator.

Don't go looking for a lawsuit just yet. His actions may well be perfectly lawful, and may well be capable of being addressed with a meeting or a transfer to another class. If your grandson is going to function in a secular world that is often hostile to believers, he will need to learn to navigate such discussion and debate - even open hostility. He will survive this just fine.

 

[quincy]

... I had a philosophy professor once who would take controversial points, and then he would flip them around ...

Some of the best teachers I had in high school did this.

 

[xylene]

The works of Ayn Rand are pretty mainstream selections for a 9th grade lit/engligh/reading class and are used in classrooms all over the country.