Tenants by entirety

[lianxue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

I just lost a lawsuit and I need to pay money to other party as part of the judgment. My wife is not part of this lawsuit. I transferred around 30K (which I saved for years) from my personal bank account to my wife’s personal bank account 14 months back (after the lawsuit was filed) then I closed my personal bank account. Court did not impose any restrictions on me at that time.

Right now, I have a tenants by entirety property with my wife (the property is worth around 25K) and we purchased this long ago (prior to any lawsuits/debits). In addition, right now, I have a small job and my salary goes to a joint bank account (I did not transfer any money to this bank account, from other accounts. Only my salary and any other earnings directly go to it) which is also tenants by entirety. My wife does not work.

My wife spent most of the 30K money (that I transferred to her 14 months ago) for groceries, and to pay other regular house hold expenses, medicines, etc. The other party is planning to file another lawsuit for money recovery from me.

(A). Can the other party files a lawsuit naming me and my wife as co-defendants for recovery? OR can they file a lawsuit on me alone? Someone told me that they can file a lawsuit on me alone but if they are successful in winning it (and successfully prove that the 30K I transferred to my wife 14 months ago is fraudulent) then they can go after my wife.

(B). If the other party is successful (in winning their new/proposed lawsuit) in proving that the money I transferred to my wife 14 months ago is fraudulent then can the other party go after our tenants by entirety property as well as the tenants by entirety bank account also?

(C). Can the other party/Court put me or my wife behind bars for any of these fraudulent transfer?

 

[justalayman]

Ya lost me when you said you already lost the suit and are required to pay money to the other party and then continued on asking about whether you and or wife can be named as defendants. You are now a judgment debtor. Your wife isn't.


Your real estate is safe. The fraudulent transfer of the funds is a problem. That will likely expose any bank account you or your wife holds either jointly or separately at risk of seizure.

 

[lianxue]

Thanks for the information.


“Ya lost me when you said you already lost the suit and are required to pay money to the other party and then continued on asking about whether you and or wife can be named as defendants.”

What I am requesting is, if my wife can be listed as co-defendant in a new lawsuit that may be filed just for money collection.



“Your real estate is safe.”
Thank you and I am bit relieved.

“The fraudulent transfer of the funds is a problem. That will likely expose any bank account you or your wife holds either jointly or separately at risk of seizure.”

More information: we created the tenants by entirety bank account while the lawsuit is going on.

If the other party did not find the money I transferred to my wife (30K) (because she spent most of that for groceries and medical treatment), what the other party can do?

You said that my real estate is safe (I think, because, it is by tenants by entirety). In the same way, why not the tenants by entirety (joint) bank account is also safe? Please note that the tenants by entirety bank account contains, only my wages which are directly deposited; and the rent we receive from the real estate. Neither I nor my wife moved any money into this tenants by entirety bank account from any other accounts.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thanks for the information.


“Ya lost me when you said you already lost the suit and are required to pay money to the other party and then continued on asking about whether you and or wife can be named as defendants.”

What I am requesting is, if my wife can be listed as co-defendant in a new lawsuit that may be filed just for money collection.



“Your real estate is safe.”
Thank you and I am bit relieved.

“The fraudulent transfer of the funds is a problem. That will likely expose any bank account you or your wife holds either jointly or separately at risk of seizure.”

More information: we created the tenants by entirety bank account while the lawsuit is going on.

If the other party did not find the money I transferred to my wife (30K) (because she spent most of that for groceries and medical treatment), what the other party can do?

You said that my real estate is safe (I think, because, it is by tenants by entirety). In the same way, why not the tenants by entirety (joint) bank account is also safe? Please note that the tenants by entirety bank account contains, only my wages which are directly deposited; and the rent we receive from the real estate. Neither I nor my wife moved any money into this tenants by entirety bank account from any other accounts.

Because you closed your account and transferred money to hide it from the lawsuit to your wife's account. HENCE engaging in fraud. Hence, opening your wife up to facing legal repercussions. You have behaved in an underhanded, illegal manner.

 

[lianxue]

Thank you and I do agree that I opened my wife up to facing legal repercussions.

However, as a Citizen of US, we have the rights to open bank accounts. That is why we opened a tenants by entirety (TBA) bank account (and we did not move any money, which otherwise would have been seized by the other party or court, into this TBA account. ). Could you explain how/why that TBA account can be in trouble?

By the way, can the court put me or my wife behind bars for these?

 

[Zigner]

Thank you and I do agree that I opened my wife up to facing legal repercussions.

However, as a Citizen of US, we have the rights to open bank accounts. That is why we opened a tenants by entirety (TBA) bank account (and we did not move any money, which otherwise would have been seized by the other party or court, into this TBA account. ). Could you explain how/why that TBA account can be in trouble?

By the way, can the court put me or my wife behind bars for these?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The law doesn't allow you to hide funds as you attempted to do.

 

[LdiJ]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The law doesn't allow you to hide funds as you attempted to do.

Except that both you and OG are neglecting to take into consideration that the money has been spent. It was spent to cover regular and ordinary expenses over the last 14 months. The money isn't being hidden, its simply gone. Even if it had not been moved out of the account in his name, it still would be gone and unavailable to use to pay the judgment holders.

Its not really fraud if the money has been spent on regular and ordinary expenses. It might be fraud if the money still existed, but it does not.

 

[Zigner]

Except that both you and OG are neglecting to take into consideration that the money has been spent. It was spent to cover regular and ordinary expenses over the last 14 months. The money isn't being hidden, its simply gone. Even if it had not been moved out of the account in his name, it still would be gone and unavailable to use to pay the judgment holders.

Its not really fraud if the money has been spent on regular and ordinary expenses. It might be fraud if the money still existed, but it does not.

Is it your contention that the crime is lessened by the fact that the conspirator managed to spend the money before they were caught? C'mon....

 

[justalayman]

Thank you and I do agree that I opened my wife up to facing legal repercussions.

However, as a Citizen of US, we have the rights to open bank accounts. That is why we opened a tenants by entirety (TBA) bank account (and we did not move any money, which otherwise would have been seized by the other party or court, into this TBA account. ). Could you explain how/why that TBA account can be in trouble?

By the way, can the court put me or my wife behind bars for these?

You and your wife conspired to commit fraud. That will allow a court to seize money, whether it be yours or your wife's and regardless what account it is in. Once you mixed your money with hers, well, how do you tell one dollar from another?

 

[justalayman]

Except that both you and OG are neglecting to take into consideration that the money has been spent. It was spent to cover regular and ordinary expenses over the last 14 months. The money isn't being hidden, its simply gone. Even if it had not been moved out of the account in his name, it still would be gone and unavailable to use to pay the judgment holders.

Its not really fraud if the money has been spent on regular and ordinary expenses. It might be fraud if the money still existed, but it does not.

The fraud is conspiring to hide money that would otherwise be accessible to the creditor. Spending it doesn't change that. Well, actually it makes it worse since not only did they hide the money, they transferred it (by spending it) such that the creditor could no longer access it at all.

 

[LdiJ]

Is it your contention that the crime is lessened by the fact that the conspirator managed to spend the money before they were caught? C'mon....

I am saying that its not a crime. Yes, they moved the money, out of fear that it would be seized/frozen right away. It was money they needed for ordinary living expenses therefore it was not a crime to spend it. It was also not a crime to move it because no judgment had been rendered or was even close to being rendered when they moved it. If they still had it, and they were hiding it from a debtor's exam, THAT might be a civil violation but it would be a stretch to call it a crime.

One does not get arrested and thrown in jail for hiding money from a creditor with a civil judgment. One can be held in contempt of court and maybe even jailed for contempt of court, but that is not a criminal conviction.

 

[lianxue]

Thanks for all the responses and for clarifying many of my concerns. The concern still I have is:

If the other party files another lawsuit to recover money from me, can they include me and my wife as co-defendants (or they can include me as THE only defendant)? I heard that they can file a lawsuit on me ALONE, to recover money and, once they get the judgment in their favor (that the transfer was fraudulent), they go after the money I transferred to my wife. Please clarify if this is correct.

Please notice that I (and my wife) did not move any money into the TBE account: the money in TBE account is the result of direct payments/deposits from employer/rents. I moved 30K from my personal account (Not the TBE account) to my wife’s personal account (not the TBE account). Therfore, the TBE account has nothing to do with the transfer I made to my wife.

I heard that, unless there is judgment against me and my wife (from the same lawsuit; and we BOTH are listed as co-defendants in that lawsuit) and the money (or part of) in TBE account was the result of fraudulent transaction; the money in TBE account cannot be touched by the other party (that is the sole purpose of TBE). Therefore, how can they touch the money in our TBE account, even if the Court ruled that the transfer of 30K from my personal account to my wife’s personal account was fraudulent? Please clarify this as well.

 

[Ohiogal]

Except that both you and OG are neglecting to take into consideration that the money has been spent. It was spent to cover regular and ordinary expenses over the last 14 months. The money isn't being hidden, its simply gone. Even if it had not been moved out of the account in his name, it still would be gone and unavailable to use to pay the judgment holders.

Its not really fraud if the money has been spent on regular and ordinary expenses. It might be fraud if the money still existed, but it does not.

The problem is he closed his account and moved the money into an account that was only his wife's in order to prevent it from being garnished prior to now. That is fraud. And spending it? That doesn't help matters either. Because it doesn't take away the fraudulent ACTIONS ... which quite frankly could open up his joint property -- including the home -- to having a lien placed against it. You are missing that it was fraudulent what he did.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thanks for all the responses and for clarifying many of my concerns. The concern still I have is:

If the other party files another lawsuit to recover money from me, can they include me and my wife as co-defendants (or they can include me as THE only defendant)? I heard that they can file a lawsuit on me ALONE, to recover money and, once they get the judgment in their favor (that the transfer was fraudulent), they go after the money I transferred to my wife. Please clarify if this is correct.

Please notice that I (and my wife) did not move any money into the TBE account: the money in TBE account is the result of direct payments/deposits from employer/rents. I moved 30K from my personal account (Not the TBE account) to my wife’s personal account (not the TBE account). Therfore, the TBE account has nothing to do with the transfer I made to my wife.

I heard that, unless there is judgment against me and my wife (from the same lawsuit; and we BOTH are listed as co-defendants in that lawsuit) and the money (or part of) in TBE account was the result of fraudulent transaction; the money in TBE account cannot be touched by the other party (that is the sole purpose of TBE). Therefore, how can they touch the money in our TBE account, even if the Court ruled that the transfer of 30K from my personal account to my wife’s personal account was fraudulent? Please clarify this as well.

Because once they find out the money went to your wife, she will be brought in as a co-defendant. You were an idiot. Anything that has both names on it can be seized or liened -- including the house because of the fraud you committed. You deserve whatever legal repercussions come and whatever money you lose.

How did you spend 30k on ordinary living expenses when you were still working? How far in debt were you? Because you story that she spent your SAVINGS on ordinary living expenses makes no sense unless you quit working.

 

[lianxue]

Thank you for the response.

I lost the lawsuit just last week. The other party has not yet filed any lawsuit for money recovery.

I have few queries:

(i). once the creditor includes my wife as a co- defendant in the lawsuit to recover money then, immediately, if my wife pays back the 30K money (from our TBA account and by borrowing money from her friends) to the creditor then will she be out of the lawsuit? Can the creditor demand more than 30K (such as interest on that 30K, etc) from my wife?

(ii). Tomorrow, if I open a personal account on my name alone, and my wife puts back 30K into that account (by borrowing money from her friends) then will she be out of the mess-up?