Harsh school suspensions

[CElaine55]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
My son is a sophomore in high school. He and a group of his friends were in the lunchroom at school. They began to talk jokingly about each other. There was a comment made by another student about one of his own family members. My son made a comment also about the other students family member. The other student took offense at the comment made by my son. He proceeded to make derogatory statements about my son and also threatened to 'beat him up'. My son basically ignored him, didn't think he serious since they knew each other. Lunch was over and my son went about the rest of his day. Later on that day, (about 2 hours later), the other student finds the classroom that my son is in (he's not in the same class). He walks in and attacks my son from behind. Another student tries tries to hold the student attacking my son from behind to break up the fight and they all fall to the floor. My son is able to get on top of the student and the altercation ends at that point, they fight is broken up.

There was another student in the class that recorded the incident. His recording shows start to finish and apparently does not show that my son hit the other student. Eyewitnesses say my son didn't hit the other student, some say he did. Both students were given 10 day suspensions. My son's suspension was due to 'retaliation'. The principle says she say a different video that I nor my son was allowed to see. She says she saw him raise his fist back to strike the other student, but she didn't actually see him do it. The school's policy is automatic 10 day suspension for fighting with some discretion. I appealed to the school superintendent to commute my sons sentence to 3-5 days but was denied. I am now having to explain to my son why he is being punished for defending his civil right in protecting himself from this other student who purposely sought him to hurt him.

Your comments please.

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
My son is a sophomore in high school. He and a group of his friends were in the lunchroom at school. They began to talk jokingly about each other. There was a comment made by another student about one of his family members. My son made a comment also about the other students family member. The other student took offense at the comment made by my son. He proceeded to make derogatory statements about my son and also threatened to 'beat him up'. My son basically ignored him, didn't think he serious since they knew each other. Lunch was over and my son went about the rest of his day. Later on that day, (about 2 hours later), the other student finds the classroom that my son is in (he's not in the same class). He walks in and attacks my son from behind. Another student tries tries to hold the student attacking my son from behind to break up the fight and they all fall to the floor. My son is able to get on top of the student and the altercation ends at that point, they fight is broken up.

There was another student in the class that recorded the incident. His recording shows start to finish and apparently does not show that my son hit the other student. Eyewitnesses say my son didn't hit the other student, some say he did. Both students were given 10 day suspensions. My son's suspension was due to 'retaliation'. The principle says she say a different video that I nor my son was allowed to see. She says she saw him raise his fist back to strike the other student, but she him actually do it. The school's policy is automatic 10 day suspension for fighting with some discretion. I appealed to the school superintendent to commute my sons sentence to 3-5 days but was denied. I am now having to explain to my son why he is being punished for defending his civil right in protecting himself from this other student who purposely sought him to hurt him.

Your comments please.

Why would you fight for the suspension to be reduced, as opposed to eliminated?

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
My son is a sophomore in high school. He and a group of his friends were in the lunchroom at school. They began to talk jokingly about each other. There was a comment made by another student about one of his own family members. My son made a comment also about the other students family member. The other student took offense at the comment made by my son. He proceeded to make derogatory statements about my son and also threatened to 'beat him up'. My son basically ignored him, didn't think he serious since they knew each other. Lunch was over and my son went about the rest of his day. Later on that day, (about 2 hours later), the other student finds the classroom that my son is in (he's not in the same class). He walks in and attacks my son from behind. Another student tries tries to hold the student attacking my son from behind to break up the fight and they all fall to the floor. My son is able to get on top of the student and the altercation ends at that point, they fight is broken up.

There was another student in the class that recorded the incident. His recording shows start to finish and apparently does not show that my son hit the other student. Eyewitnesses say my son didn't hit the other student, some say he did. Both students were given 10 day suspensions. My son's suspension was due to 'retaliation'. The principle says she say a different video that I nor my son was allowed to see. She says she saw him raise his fist back to strike the other student, but she him actually do it. The school's policy is automatic 10 day suspension for fighting with some discretion. I appealed to the school superintendent to commute my sons sentence to 3-5 days but was denied. I am now having to explain to my son why he is being punished for defending his civil right in protecting himself from this other student who purposely sought him to hurt him.

Your comments please.

Please clarify the lunch room comments...By both the other kid and your son.

 

[xylene]

Your school has a zero tolerance disciplinary policy and that's that.

Big reason why many American's do not respect public education or educators, especially school administrators.

 

[FlyingRon]

Mutual brawling isn't self-defense. He started it isn't any more meaningful here than it would be in a criminal assault trial. Your son broke the rules.

There is likely an administrative procedure to appeal the suspension you must avail yourself of first if you want to pursue this. If that doesn't work, you can go to court, but you'd be well advised to have a lawyer if you were to have a chance (which I suspect is slim).

 

[Zigner]

If one is attacked and only "brawls" enough to extricate themselves from the attack, then it is self defense.

 

[NIV]

If one is attacked and only "brawls" enough to extricate themselves from the attack, then it is self defense.

Only if the brawl is objectively and subjectively reasonable. Both a reasonable person AND the brawler must think the force used was needed and reasonable.

There is a little clip on the internet today that shows a much taller kid hold back and then get in front of a shorter (And, thicker) kid who seemed to be simply walking down the school corridor and minding his own business. The taller kid takes a swing...and the shorter kid pretty much picks him up and body slams him to the ground and then punches the kid once in the head. The clip leaves the instigator on the ground, seemingly unconscious.

Was the punch needed? Was the body slam? Would either be considered self-defense?

 

[Zigner]

The taller kid takes a swing...and the shorter kid pretty much picks him up and body slams him to the ground and then punches the kid once in the head. The clip leaves the instigator on the ground, seemingly unconscious.

Was the punch needed? Was the body slam? Would either be considered self-defense?

Based only on this (and I haven't watched the Video), I would say the body slam was probably ok, but not the punch.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Only if the brawl is objectively and subjectively reasonable. Both a reasonable person AND the brawler must think the force used was needed and reasonable.

There is a little clip on the internet today that shows a much taller kid hold back and then get in front of a shorter (And, thicker) kid who seemed to be simply walking down the school corridor and minding his own business. The taller kid takes a swing...and the shorter kid pretty much picks him up and body slams him to the ground and then punches the kid once in the head. The clip leaves the instigator on the ground, seemingly unconscious.

Was the punch needed? Was the body slam? Would either be considered self-defense?

It's not relevant who did what, and whether it was self defense.

In most public schools being involved in any such behavior is grounds for suspension. This has been the case in many places for decades. Even if.

 

[CElaine55]

Why would you fight for the suspension to be reduced, as opposed to eliminated?

I would have but my feeling from the appeals meeting was that an elimination of the suspension would definitely not be granted.

 

[NIV]

It's not relevant who did what, and whether it was self defense.

In most public schools being involved in any such behavior is grounds for suspension. This has been the case in many places for decades. Even if.

It is not relevant in a school with zero tolerance policies. It is relevant in other situations including any criminal or civil issues that result from the behavior.

 

[CElaine55]

Your school has a zero tolerance disciplinary policy and that's that.

Big reason why many American's do not respect public education or educators, especially school administrators.

I understand zero tolerance and I have my concerns with that as well. There are many schools across this country that have zero tolerance policies ant their methods of discipline are fair and more realistic. They aim to do what a school environment is suppose to do and that's teach life's lessons. I see that w policy of removing students from a under performing school system is productive. I could see if my son was a problem student and always getting into trouble. Not the case here. If this incident happens outside of a school environment, what punishment would he have received?

 

[Zigner]

It's not relevant who did what, and whether it was self defense.

In most public schools being involved in any such behavior is grounds for suspension. This has been the case in many places for decades. Even if.

Yes, that is understood...however, for many decades, there wasn't a video camera in everyone's hand. The OP says she has video proof that will show her son action purely in self defense. If that is the case, then it certainly warrants the argument that her son shouldn't be subjected to discipline.

HOWEVER, in this case, I think the OP knows that her son crossed a line, but feels he was justified, as indicated by her request for a lesser punishment, not a removal of the punishment. In that case, then I agree that the school likely acted correctly.

 

[not2cleverRed]

It is not relevant in a school with zero tolerance policies. It is relevant in other situations including any criminal or civil issues that result from the behavior.

This thread is about a school with a zero tolerance policy and the parent complaining about the suspension being "harsh".

OP is not interested in police involvement. OP is interested in having the suspension reduced.

Schools, legally, can have rules, codes of conduct, etc., and they can legally enforce those rules.

This is a legal site. The school has not involved the police. The OP seems more worried about the suspension than the issues you are raising.

OP has limited recourse. One can attempt to get the school rules/code of conduct changed.

If OP is concerned about how the suspension will affect the boy's record and future opportunities, that's another issue. The school still isn't libel - the rules are clear.

 

[Zigner]

Is it your suggestion that if a student walks in to a classroom that he doesn't belong in and attacks another student, then BOTH students should be subject to suspension. (Yes, because that's what happened here.)

How far do you take it. What if the student had ambushed the other student, stabbed him, and then the student, weak from the loss of blood, kicks the hand holding the knife. Should both students be suspended? I guess so...

How about a gun. What if the student walked in with a gun and didn't attack anyone. Another student sees this and tackles the student with the gun. Should that hero...errr...student be suspended? I guess so...