SSI overpayment for deceased recipient

[LuvMa]

What is the name of your state? NY

My mom received SSI; she had no asset and the only income was SSI. In 2015 because of old age and dementia; I became her representative payee. She passed away last month; two weeks ago I received a letter from SSI asking for her overpayments during year 2011 to 2013, a total of $5865 to be pay back. My questions are:

1. Because she has no asset and income beside SSI. Plus I was her representative payee two years after the overpaid. Who is responsible for re-paying the overpayments?
2. How to respond to the overpayment claim letter?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

 

[adjusterjack]

1. Because she has no asset and income beside SSI. Plus I was her representative payee two years after the overpaid. Who is responsible for re-paying the overpayments?
2. How to respond to the overpayment claim letter?

Seems to me that the claim letter would instruct you.

If not, take the letter to the local SSA office and ask your questions.

 

[LuvMa]

Thank you for your quick advice.

I went last Friday to my local SSA. The window agent ask me to fill out a waiver which I did not. Need to understand why do I need a waiver? I did not receive the overpaid money. The waiver asks for all my financial statements, last year tax return, bank statements and payroll slips. I feel uncomfortable of disclosing my stuffs.

 

[Zigner]

Thank you for your quick advice.

I went last Friday to my local SSA. The window agent ask me to fill out a waiver which I did not. Need to understand why do I need a waiver? I did not receive the overpaid money. The waiver asks for all my financial statements, last year tax return, bank statements and payroll slips. I feel uncomfortable of disclosing my stuffs.

Go back and ask for a supervisor.

 

[adjusterjack]

Need to understand why do I need a waiver?

You should have asked that question while you were there.

 

[xylene]

Even though Mom had no assets, you may need to open probate. to establish an estate.

As Mom's representative payee they will go after you for her overpayments.

You may need a lawyer. You need to talk to a supervisor. Don't agree to any repayments.

The situation is more complex as you are over the 5000 threshold.

 

[xylene]

Also - did the document specify more on the reasons for the overpayment and indicate any fault?

 

[LuvMa]

You should have asked that question while you were there.

The windows agent was not helpful at all. I was in the office from 8:45 am to 3 pm.

 

[LuvMa]

The letter only asks for repayment.

 

[Janke]

The waiver form is a catch all for many overpayment decisions. Hopefully you indicated on the form that you were not liable for repayment of this overpayment since you were not representative payee during the time of the overpayment. At least that is what you say. Do you have copies of the original overpayment notices, the reason behind the overpayment and the period of time? Do you have evidence of the date you became payee? SSA should have all of that saved electronically, but it would help for you to point it out, since it is your argument. Your mother is the person who is liable or her estate or the distributees of her estate? What happened to her valuables, her savings, the proceeds of her life insurance? She may not have had anything. You as representative payee should be able to provide evidence that your mother died penniless. So then SSI should decide that you are NOT liable for repayment and since she left no estate, nobody can pay back the overpayment and it just gets written off. Like other uncollectable federal debt.

I am curious, though, about what your mother did at her advanced age and mental decline, to incur a $5865 debt to SSI in 2011-2013 and never bothered to repay it. She either had too much money or property and didn't report it, she lived rent free and didn't report it, she left the country for awhile and didn't report it. Those would be the most likely. She probably didn't go to jail and not report it. My guess is that she did this with the full knowledge of at least one family member in her life who was helping her with her business. And SSI can only collect an overpayment at the rate of 10% of the federal benefit per month, unless fraud or similar fault is determined. The original amount of this unpaid debt is probably much more.

So maybe morally, that person who was aware of the action that caused the overpayment, should repay the overpayment even though they are not legally responsible. I could be way off base here, but I doubt it.

 

[HRZ]

AS far as I know you have no duty to step up to plate to seek administration of Moms intestate affairs

 

[LuvMa]

Thank you everyone for your advice. Really appreciate it!

Going through my mom’s letters, found the explanation letter from SSI. During late 2011 to early 2013, for few months her bank account had little bit money over $2000, according to SSI this was the reason my mom was overpaid. She lived with 7 people in a house and did contribute her share of household expense. She was reinstated SSI and 10% was deducted from her monthly check since then.
She was diagnosed with dementia in late 2015; then I became her representative payee.
I do have letter to prove it.
She left no estates, no money. Her funeral expenses was paid by her children.

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you everyone for your advice. Really appreciate it!

Going through my mom’s letters, found the explanation letter from SSI. During late 2011 to early 2013, for few months her bank account had little bit money over $2000, according to SSI this was the reason my mom was overpaid. She lived with 7 people in a house and did contribute her share of household expense. She was reinstated SSI and 10% was deducted from her monthly check since then.
She was diagnosed with dementia in late 2015; then I became her representative payee.
I do have letter to prove it.
She left no estates, no money. Her funeral expenses was paid by her children.

Head back to the SS offices with all of your documentation and ask for a supervisor. She did not leave any assets and you were not her rep payee when the overpayment happened.

 

[xylene]

Head back to the SS offices with all of your documentation and ask for a supervisor. She did not leave any assets and you were not her rep payee when the overpayment happened.

Wjhile I agree with this step, he may be subject to joint and several liability, since the money was owe when he became payee and was in place when he was payee until mother's death. It really may not be that simple and he may have to open probate to deal with this debt. An estate doesn't mean their necessarily is any remainder.

 

[Janke]

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0502201021

The reference goes on and on about how to collect an overpayment after the SSI recipient is deceased. In the end......

C. Estate does not exist
If an estate does not exist, seek recovery from the liable representative payee or the liable spouse.
If there is neither a liable representative payee nor a liable spouse, discontinue recovery efforts.


You don't need a supervisor, but you do need a specialist. Try to talk to the SSI Technical Expert. Bring your documents.

Kinda ridiculous that there would still be a $5000 balance on an overpayment that has been in recovery for three or four years? Those excess resource overpayments are harsh - have $2100 in the bank for six months or a year and you owe every SSI penny back. I would waive recovery of the rest of it just for that reason and I am a retired SSI Technical Expert. Now, if it had been an overpayment caused by leaving the country for six months and not reporting it, I would have made them repay more than 10% per month.