Can a grandparent deny visitaion to the birth father?

[gwbell3]

What is the name of your state? California

Our daughter and (4-year old) grand-daughter moved out of state. My wife and I are planning on bringing our grand-daughter out for a two week visit. We will fly to pick up our grand-daughter and then again to bring her home.

Our grand-daughter's birth father lives here in our town. When we did this last year, he expected to get his visitation time (several day visits and a two overnight visits), of which we complied. The birth father telephones our grand-daughter sporadically every week to two weeks for a five-minute call. He has ignored/avoided all court ordered child support, and actually the court has been unable to serve him papers for the ongoing child support hearings.

I have mentioned to our daughter that on this visit with our grand-daughter, that we have no intention of allowing the birth father any visitation unless he compensates us (or our daughter) for his portion of the visit costs. We would expect this visit to cost us approximately $2,000. Break this down by 14 days and it's approximately $143 per day.

Can we legally do this, and would it jeapordize our daughters custody rights?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? California

Our daughter and (4-year old) grand-daughter moved out of state. My wife and I are planning on bringing our grand-daughter out for a two week visit. We will fly to pick up our grand-daughter and then again to bring her home.

Our grand-daughter's birth father lives here in our town. When we did this last year, he expected to get his visitation time (several day visits and a two overnight visits), of which we complied. The birth father telephones our grand-daughter sporadically every week to two weeks for a five-minute call. He has ignored/avoided all court ordered child support, and actually the court has been unable to serve him papers for the ongoing child support hearings.

I have mentioned to our daughter that on this visit with our grand-daughter, that we have no intention of allowing the birth father any visitation unless he compensates us (or our daughter) for his portion of the visit costs. We would expect this visit to cost us approximately $2,000. Break this down by 14 days and it's approximately $143 per day.

Can we legally do this, and would it jeapordize our daughters custody rights?

Do you know exactly what dad's visitation schedule is? Was it changed to a long distance plan when your daughter moved out of state? Does your granddaughter love her father and would she want to see him?

 

[Zigner]

Wow - charging the man to see his own daughter? Classy.

Are there any court orders in place regarding custody?

Edit: Why don't you serve the court papers on him? Or, arrange for a process server to be waiting once he drops off the child? Of course, this should be done in a way that the child is not aware of it.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Your daughter's custody rights may well be in jeopardy as it is because she is not following the visitation agreement.

 

[LdiJ]

Your daughter's custody rights may well be in jeopardy as it is because she is not following the visitation agreement.

Maybe...the grandparents have not yet answered the question as to what the schedule is.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Per the OP it is at least, "several day visits and a two overnight visits".

 

[LdiJ]

Per the OP it is at least, "several day visits and a two overnight visits".

Again, maybe...we know nothing about the background of the relocation.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Hence in my original post, I wrote, "...custody rights may well be in jeopardy..."

 

[gwbell3]

LdiJ - Court ordered visitation was very loose. One in spring/summer and one in fall/winter. No defined duration, but at my daughter's expense. He could go visit (out of state) anytime at his expense. He never has. I believe our granddaughter loves the idea of loving her father. She's really not interested in his sporadic phone calls, and not sure she would bring up wanting to see him while she was here unless we told her it had been arranged. But I do recognize she is 4-yo. On her last trip, she actually spent more time with her other grandparents and step siblings. Her father says he wants the time, but then seems to dump our granddaughter with whoever is available during his time.

Zigner - Not sure I need to respond to your snarky comment. Do you come to this forum to troll or actually try to help people? Doesn't the birth father have some legal/moral responsibility to support his daughter? He has not provided any for our granddaughter or his two other children from a previous relationship, yet demands his visitation.

PayrollHRGuy - I thought this forum was for legal advice from attorneys. I would not want to do anything to jeopardize our daughters custody, but at the same time, do not believe we (as grandparents) have any legal obligation under the custody orders between our daughter and the birth father.

 

[Just Blue]

LdiJ - Court ordered visitation was very loose. One in spring/summer and one in fall/winter. No defined duration, but at my daughter's expense. He could go visit (out of state) anytime at his expense. He never has. I believe our granddaughter loves the idea of loving her father. She's really not interested in his sporadic phone calls, and not sure she would bring up wanting to see him while she was here unless we told her it had been arranged. But I do recognize she is 4-yo. On her last trip, she actually spent more time with her other grandparents and step siblings. Her father says he wants the time, but then seems to dump our granddaughter with whoever is available during his time.

Zigner - Not sure I need to respond to your snarky comment. Do you come to this forum to troll or actually try to help people? Doesn't the birth father have some legal/moral responsibility to support his daughter? He has not provided any for our granddaughter or his two other children from a previous relationship, yet demands his visitation.

PayrollHRGuy - I thought this forum was for legal advice from attorneys. I would not want to do anything to jeopardize our daughters custody, but at the same time, do not believe we (as grandparents) have any legal obligation under the custody orders between our daughter and the birth father.

Read the TOS of FreeAdvice. And shame on your daughter for choosing a deadbeat to father her child. You should have taught her better.

 

[LdiJ]

LdiJ - Court ordered visitation was very loose. One in spring/summer and one in fall/winter. No defined duration, but at my daughter's expense. He could go visit (out of state) anytime at his expense. He never has. I believe our granddaughter loves the idea of loving her father. She's really not interested in his sporadic phone calls, and not sure she would bring up wanting to see him while she was here unless we told her it had been arranged. But I do recognize she is 4-yo. On her last trip, she actually spent more time with her other grandparents and step siblings. Her father says he wants the time, but then seems to dump our granddaughter with whoever is available during his time.

Then it does not sound like you would be violating the court order on the mother's behalf if you did not share your time with the father, but it would still be pushing the envelope since your daughter is supposed to provide the transportation for dad's parenting time. You would definitely be pushing the envelope to require him to pay for anything, since the orders specifically states that its your daughter's responsibility to provide him two visits a year at her cost.

Now, what you COULD do is have your daughter arrange for dad to have a visit AFTER your visit with the child, but then your daughter would be responsible for at least the return transportation.

Again, under no circumstances can you require that dad reimburse you for any transportation costs, as your daughter is responsible to provide those for dad's two yearly visits in your community.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

PayrollHRGuy - I thought this forum was for legal advice from attorneys. I would not want to do anything to jeopardize our daughters custody, but at the same time, do not believe we (as grandparents) have any legal obligation under the custody orders between our daughter and the birth father.

You thought wrong. But I never said you would want to do anything to jeopardize our daughter's custody. What I did do was imply that she may well have already done that herself.

 

[Zigner]

Zigner - Not sure I need to respond to your snarky comment. Do you come to this forum to troll or actually try to help people? Doesn't the birth father have some legal/moral responsibility to support his daughter? He has not provided any for our granddaughter or his two other children from a previous relationship, yet demands his visitation.

"Pay me money or you can't see your child" doesn't sound the least bit troubling to you? I mean, the kid's not Bobo the Dancing Koala Bear, is he?
As for the duty to support vs the right to see his daughter: They are separate issues.

 

[stealth2]

Bobo the Dancing Koala Bear,

I love Bobo, and his sister Bibi, too.

 

[gwbell3]

Just Blue - Glanced through the TOS. Am I in violation of something specifically? I did recognize this guy was a loser from the get go, but our daughter ignored our comments. Unfortunately, she's come to that realization as time passed. And okay...I'll accept responsibility for raising her.

LdiJ - Appreciate your response. Understand, the focus really isn't compensation for us, nor is that really important. What bothers me is the birth father continues to expect these freebies, yet offers nothing in return, and not sure we need to give up visitation time at our expense. He's ignored child support and discontinued health care coverage for our granddaughter that was also ordered by the court. Recognize I may be vindictive, but hate to see this happening to our daughter and granddaughter.

PayrollHRGuy - Thank you for your response. I didn't misinterpret your comment.

All - My apologies. I really thought this was the "Ask a Lawyer" forum. It wasn't my intent to come here just looking to commensurate our troubles. Please ignore this thread or can a moderator delete. Thank You!