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What does it saying in the Constitution that the government can Escheating your money.

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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
In my case it was a couple of insurance premiums that had been returned to me when I changed insurance companies. I didn't realize I'd never cashed the checks and was quite surprised to find my name on the State Lost Money list. I filled out a couple of forms and the state sent me a check. It was very easy. You might try it, OP.
 


Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
But why does the government then need a program to 'protect' those same personally responsivle consumers from financial firms they invested in voluntarily for years, often decades on an ever tightening timeline? Because it is a racket even if you're a conservative.
The government doesn't. But then I never heard an argument for the escheat statutes as a way to protect individuals from being preyed upon by investment firms and banks either. I certainly would say that the escheat statutes I've looked at use too short a time period and that some simplification of process would be worthwhile. Moreover, I would have the state use the information it has to actively reach to the account holders to let them know when it has received property under the escheat statute. I'm not saying these laws are perfect. But I am saying that with a notice requirement people shouldn't really ever run into an escheat problem. If they do the simple steps of keeping addresses current, reading their mail, and then contacting their financial institution they'd be fine. And I don't think that's too much to ask for people to do.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Incidentally, Victor's in Florida, not Nevada. He just pulled Nevada and stories he's heard about things happening there out of the air. It sounds like he's one of those folks who believe that if they choose, they can ignore everything and then rant and rave enough to fix the consequences of their neglect.

It is miraculous how the postal service does work, because people tend to get the notices that say they are being prosecuted, or their money is being taken, but they never ever got the first fifteen things that were done to inform them of actions they needed to take before this happened and that would've stopped this from happening.

People who are anti-big government have never been in a place where there was no government control of much of anything. A confederacy doesn't work because it's too small and local. Uncle Jim down at the courthouse has far too much control over who gets what. And when profit meets principle, on a small scale, you are robbed if the person with control feels like doing it. The federal standards are about the only thing that keeps states, or at least the states in my good old Southeast, like Florida from robbing you blinder than a bat and giving you less and less and less freedom and control, not to mention protection from crookedness.
 

RJR

Active Member
Where does it say in the constitution that the government can Escheat(cheat) your money?
Where in the constitution does it give the state the authority to take my money without any justification whatsoever?
Vic, the Federal Constitution is not a catch all arbiter of legal issues. Unless a Federal Constitutional question is presented, State law controls. Your state Due Course of Law Process can be argued, yes, but I would bet there is Case law on this subject already, whether challenging DP, or another legal premise. Federal Courts can rarely intervene in sole state law decisional matters.
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
I think perhaps you don't understand what escheating means. When an account is dormant for a number of years (I believe the amount of time varies by state) the bank turns the money over to the state for safe keeping. Its still your money, and you can still get it back from the state. You have to jump through a hoop or two to claim it, but its mostly just proving your identity.
So I guess the definition of "dormant " may vary greatly. This sound to me like squatters rights( adverse procession) however instead of being applied to real estate, its actually being applied unconstitutional to seize money without a warrant from people's bank accounts. Does enchantments also mean the person is dead?

If you have 30 accounts with the bank and you go into the bank to conduct business, call in for customer service, pay taxes on the account, receiver paperwork to your home that does not get return to sender,etc... Can they really consider your account to be dormant because you did not do anything on a 30-year CD that you are not even allowed to withdraw money from without penalty?

If you applied these same standards to take(steal) assets from other people, you would be in jail. Imaging explaining to a cop how you took your neighbor boat because they did not use it in a while so you considered it to be abandoned.

Where in the constitution does it say the state can seize your money without a warrant, judgement against you from a living person?

I am surprise there is not a class action lawsuit against the state of Florida over this.
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
Since it isn't the federal government doing this it is covered by the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
Would a person ever be justified in stealing money from another person account like this? If I'm a stock broker and I have client who have entrusted money to be and I talk to the people about different things but they did not ask me about 1 particular stock they have. Would I have the ability to take that money for my own under abandoned property? Keep in mind they are receiving statements in the mail, paying taxes on it, etc..

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
The state cannot take your money "without any justification whatsoever." The Constitution does require that before assets are taken there must be due process. You have the right for a certain period of time after the property is transferred to the state to get it back by following the procedures the state has for that. The escheatment laws provide the due process the Constitution requires. Note that the Constitution does not have to give the states a specific right or power. Under the Constitution a state may do anything unless the Constitution prohibits the state from doing it.



Asset forfeiture laws are a distinctly different issue than escheatment laws. The U.S. Supreme Court just recently held that states are restricted by the federal Constitution in asset forfeitures in the same way the federal government is restricted. This will help curb the abuses by some states of civil forfeitures.



Contact the state about the procedure to reclaim the money.
What happens after that period of time? You are unable to get your money back or its just harder to do so.

These are laws which deal with dead people not the living. How can you take someone money because they did not friend you on facebook? That does not pass the smell test. You would never allow a individual or company to take an individual money under abandoned property using that same low bar standard.

I talk to the bank at least once a month however not about every single account. If I have a 30 year CD, there is literally nothing I need to do except wait on it. The taxes are being paid on it, I'm receiving mail on it, there is no reason to believe the account is abandoned.

This is Bernie Madoff level of fraud being done by the state and this is somewhat recent territory I don't think they have ever gone to.

They are taking a law design for them to take money from dead people and lowering the bar so far that they will take money from anyone who does not have computer or regularly engages in online banking. I don't have the bank app installed on the phone nor do I friend them on facebook or tweet them on twitter however I don't expect them to empty to the government because of that.

Also, that supreme court decision had more to do with limiting excess fines than asset forfeiture. What I have been told is they kind of sidestep that issue which really need to be address.

Thanks.
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
This has nothing to do with "corrupt government officials." The bank is doing this voluntarily because of lack of activity on your account. When you first opened the account you were given an "accountholders agreement." That's your contract with the bank. Did you read it?

This sample from one bank addresses Unclaimed Property on Page 56 and explains the circumstances under which funds can be turned over to the state.

https://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/resources/deposit-agreements.go
Find or get your account holders agreement. You'll find similar wording. It's what you agreed to allow the bank to do when you opened the account. If you didn't follow the bank's instructions about keeping your account active then you really have nothing to complain about.
I called the bank 2 weeks prior and asked them if there were any issues that needed my attention. They said that everything is fine, no fraud alerts,etc.. I said great. I get home from vacation and see a letter saying they turn over my money to the state.

I also had American express gift card do this and it was even before the expiration date printed on the card.

I never agreed to anything like this and I would disagree that its voluntary. Why would the bank want to loose business like that?

I think the states have taken rules design to get money from dead people and applying to to anyone for any reason such of the same way that you hear the horror stories of asset forfeiture when a guy goes to gamble in Vegas or has cash on them to buy something from Craigslist/Ebay. No arrest, no court, no accused of a crime, just the cops pull someone over and are like " How much money you got? Ok, give it to me, bye" That sound more like a mugging then police work.

I worked in the financial industry and if we did even 1% of this, we would all be in jail. Many of our clients did not even own a computer and would just call in if they needed anything. If they are receiving mail, paying taxes, calling in, then the account is not dormant. You can't require someone contact you online or social media in order to avoid stealing their money.
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
There is nothing voluntary about it. State law requires the bank to do it when there has been no activity on the account.
Yes, I think the state is the real problem behind this. However I wish the bank would do more to fight back against this.

I guess if all the smaller account were somehow ground into 1 master account so calling about any account would be activity on all the account this might help. However I still think its wrong for them to use rules design to take money from a dead person and apply it to living people because they recently lowed the bar so low. Someone should fight them on this in court. They have gone too far.
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
I know a great deal about this, and escheatment is frankly some real shady business.

The claim is to protect the citizen/consumer - but the reality is it is a cash grab, and that's why most states have inceasingly shortened the period before the funds are escheated and ratcheted up MASSIVE penalties on financial institutions for reporting, compliance and due deligence filings that are DESIGNED to be impossible to comply with as a secret quasi tax on banking and financial services. And it's perfect - poorly understood, most people have never heard of it, it is positioned a consumer service with friendly sounding websites 'findyourNYSmoneyowed.gov' that kind of thing.

And it's not just about forgotten bank accounts, it can involve thousands even millions in stock. For the owner this can involve thousands in missed dividends, losses, liquidation costs and massive tax gains and repurchase step-up issues. It is not fun, ant it is major cash grab. Because you don't get your stock back. Finacially trashes mostly old people who purchased stock in an ESPP, which is a financial snoozer and is normal to have trivial activity from the participant. Easily have zero activity in 36 months.
YES YES and YES! Finally someone who gets what I'm talking about.

Especially for people who are into it for the long haul. Some people are like day traders or arbitrageur trading minute to minute and some people are going to invest in the market and not concern themselves about the daily fluctuations but say that when they are going to buy a new house or something, the money will be there.

The government is suppose be like a referee in a football game but here they are acting more like Nigerian scammers trying to find anyway steal all your money. I wish some civil rights law group would take up the case and maybe get a supreme court ruling on this.
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
And the poster is in Nevada. States that have 'EZ incorportation laws' htink Nevada, Delaware and South Dakota - they are the worst offenders.
I was just using NV as an example of corrupt cops using asset forfeiture on tourist traveling to Las Vegas to gamble. The cops would just stop them and ask them how much money they were carrying then take the money without accusing them of a crime or making an arrest.

There are actual video of these cops learning how to do this and the instructor is talking about how all the cool police toys they have purchased with this free money source. I think he said it was like " pennies from heaven" and how no one could believe it was legal.

The supreme court need to rule on this one too. This is contrary to everything American is suppose to be about. These are the action of a corrupt 3rd world country not suppose to happen in American. Someone need to fix this.
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
The people who operate these programs and administer these programs have professional development programs and seminars for the very purpose of increasing the revenue for the State derived by escheated funds and enforcement actions against financial service firms. It's not a public service. They make it confusing on purpose to generate escheatments.



That is arguably the most common stupid defense of an incredibly punitive and poorly understood anti-consumer policy, but when you really consider the US is a country that literally has publicly sponsored media campaigns encouraging 'set-and-forget' investing to bolster retirement income.

If you want to dupe people into losing thousands because of poor literacy and our crappy postal service, ok. but then concede spending money to promote passive investment is pretty stupid.
I was actually on vacation and when I return USPS had boxes of mail that they held for me while I was away. In this large box of mail, there was 1 letter saying they were going to take my money unless I responded by a deadline which had already passed. I also routinely get mail from my neighbors and they get mail for me. Sometimes they are nice enough to bring it to me but other times they are not as I don't get along with some of them.

The wait time to call USPS to complain about missing mail is something over 2 hours. I have open up cases about missing mail or mail wrongfully return even without an attempted delivery. No complain has ever gotten my mail back.

The fact that you are paying taxes on these account is reason enough not to believe they are dormant. So the state is assuming at all times that everyone is dead unless you prove otherwise? That is what we have come to as a country?

If you know of any class action lawsuit on this issue, I would be in 100%
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
The laws do vary significantly among jurisdictions on this. In the two places I've lived most recently the law requires that the institution send notice to the account owner of the upcoming escheatment so that the account owner can take steps to prevent it. And indeed while living in both places I received those notices and all I had to do was contact the institution and verify with them that I am still around and aware of the account. So if the notices are sent and you ignore them, that's on you.
In America, you are innocent until proven guilty. By that same token, you are alive until proven dead. You have to prove to me routinely that you are not dead or I will assume you are dead and take all your stuff? Does that sound like America to you?

So do you have some old Jetski that you don't use that much? How would you feel about if I came over to your house and stole that jetski under the idea it must have been abandoned.

What right do I have to take your stuff unless you prove to me that you are using it or not dead? This is corrupt thief on the highest level and I believe unconstitutional. Just like asset forfeiture on people who have done absolutely nothing wrong.

Anyone who travel with money has to forfeit it to the police because its suspicious? I don't think so.

The supreme court need to step in here.
 

TheVictortheviking

Active Member
Its the same in my state. Of course, if the address for the owner of the account is no longer valid, that's a problem.
OK, but here is the thing.

The address of the owner is still VALID! The owner is receiving mail on the account. Also, the owner is paying taxes from the money earned in the account. That is activity. There is no reason to suspect the person is dead. These rules if you look them up dead with the state taking money from a dead person. They are taking money for a person who no longer exist and it dates back to England. These states have no reason to believe that someone is dead but find way to steal your bank account anyway under some twisted logic.
 
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