Is it illegal to pose as someone for job drug test?

[Taxing Matters]

If he has no inherent right to work there, then working there is a privilege, just as the employer has the privilege of hiring the employee.

Not a privilege, at least not as that term is used in the law. While there are a variety of privileges expressly defined in the law, the general definition of the word privilege in Black's Law Dictionary, 10th Edition, is: "A special legal right, exemption, or immunity granted to a person or class of persons; an exception to a duty. • A privilege grants someone the legal freedom to do or not to do a given act. It immunizes conduct that, under ordinary circumstances, would subject the actor to liability. "

 

[Zigner]

Not a privilege, at least not as that term is used in the law. While there are a variety of privileges expressly defined in the law, the general definition of the word privilege in Black's Law Dictionary, 10th Edition, is: "A special legal right, exemption, or immunity granted to a person or class of persons; an exception to a duty. • A privilege grants someone the legal freedom to do or not to do a given act. It immunizes conduct that, under ordinary circumstances, would subject the actor to liability. "

Thanks - I realize that my use of the word "privilege" wasn't accurate after all.

 

[Taxing Matters]

In any case, there is definitely no "right" to be hired, nor is there any continuing right to work there once hired. Of course, this is absent any other contractual agreement(s), illegal discrimination matters, statutory requirements, etc.

Correct. In general there is no right to a job or to continued employment, at least with private employers, much to the displeasure of some on the left who would wish upon America the employment systems of some Western European nations, or perhaps something even more socialistic than that.

 

[quincy]

I think on this forum most posters will use common language definitions and not legalese.

 

[paddywakk]

To clarify, I'm not asking HOW to break the law...I'm asking AM I breaking any actual law by doing this to help my brother out on a nicotine test? I know that what I am debating doing is not the ethical thing to do. I'm just curious if it's an illegal thing to do.

Morally and ethically, I get it, it's not the right thing to do. I understand that and wouldn't do this for someone normally, but it's my brother who has been out of work and this isn't concerning illegal drugs, it's just cigarettes. But again, I don't expect many (or any) to be ok with someone doing something like this. So judge me if you wish, I can't argue that.

But a few said it was "fraud"... Anyone have any detail or expansion on that? What law am I breaking? I'm not trying to be combative, I really don't know and am looking to find out. Naive question here, is 'impersonating' someone else in itself breaking a law? Is taking a privately ordered drug test for someone breaking a law? Again, I have no clue. I'm not a lawyer and have never broken a law (other than speeding I guess).

I guess I look at this like cheating on an exam in college (which I never did, but still going with this analogy). If I go to my brothers class and take his computer science test for him to pass, is that morally/ethically wrong? Yes. Is it "illegal" though? That's what I'm asking in my other scenario.

Thanks guys for any help/clarification you can give!!

Believe me, you aren't going to fool them for long!

Many smokers don't realize how strongly they smell of smoke. Plus, what's he going to do on his work breaK? Not smoke?

Employees who are willing to lie and cheat to get the job aren't the kind of employees organizations want.

 

[Zigner]

I think on this forum most posters will use common language definitions and not legalese.

I agree - although I've been here long enough that I can accept being held to a higher standard (maybe mini-legalese).

 

[adjusterjack]

is this considered to be breaking any law?

Yes.

Ohio criminal statute 2913.49. Identity Fraud
(D) No person, with intent to defraud, shall permit another person to use the person's own personal identifying information.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2913
The intent is to defraud the employer for something of value (employment).

It's a felony of several degrees depending on "the value of the credit, property, services, debt, or other legal obligation involved in the violation or course of conduct..."

Penalties range from 6-12 months in prison to 3-11 years in prison and/or fines from $2500 to $20,000.

Do you still think it's a good idea?

 

[NeilTheCop]

Hi,

I live in Ohio and many companies are now testing for nicotine as part of the pre-employment drug test (crazy but true). My brother just got offered a job, but he socially smokes and is afraid he will fail the nicotine test required by this company and not be hired.

So...We look very similar and he asked me if I would basically impersonate him and take the pee test at the lab center? I see little harm in this as a nicotine test is so dumb in my opinion, especially when it's being given by a financial company as a hiring qualification.

My only slight fear is what if I got caught somehow? Is posing as someone else for a drug test considered "illegal"? I assume yes of course it would be if this was for a court case or judge issued or whatever. But if it's just for employment by a privately owned company, is there anything illegal about it? I just don't want to do this for him and end up getting into some sort of trouble myself.

Thanks!!

Just remember that if you help your brother out the old saying is still very true "No good deed shall go unpunished". Not worth the risk.
I understand the others talking about the cost of health care and how employers are trying to curb those costs, but how far could it go? "We only employ Prius owners because they are a safer car" or "We only employ people who belong to a gym and we will need to see your membership card and attendance record".

 

[quincy]

I agree - although I've been here long enough that I can accept being held to a higher standard (maybe mini-legalese).

I refuse to be held to a higher standard. Haha

I try not to use legal terms in a post unless absolutely necessary because I think speaking in a language posters don't understand (legalese) can confuse them more than help them.

 

[NeilTheCop]

I refuse to be held to a higher standard. Haha

I try not to use legal terms in a post unless absolutely necessary because I think speaking in a language posters don't understand (legalese) can confuse them more than help them.

You will be suggesting that the legal profession stops using Latin next

 

[quincy]

You will be suggesting that the legal profession stops using Latin next

It already has been proposed.

It is far more difficult to do that than first imagined, though.

 

[eerelations]

I'm still shaking my head in astonished wonder at the fact that there's someone out there who doesn't think fraud is illegal...

 

[eerelations]

It already has been proposed.

It is far more difficult to do that than first imagined, though.

In Canada, several judges have thrown out employment contracts for mid- to low-level employees because they (the judges) asserted that there was too much legalese in the contracts for the average person to understand, and that most average people can't afford to hire a lawyer to interpret these contracts for them every time they're offered a job.

 

[quincy]

In Canada, several judges have thrown out employment contracts for mid- to low-level employees because they (the judges) asserted that there was too much legalese in the contracts for the average person to understand, and that most average people can't afford to hire a lawyer to interpret these contracts for them every time they're offered a job.

There is a large US company that rewrote all of their contracts to make them consumer-friendly. The original contracts were reduced by several pages, just by eliminating all of the words like heretofore and whereas.

 

[xylene]

Legalese or not a job is not a privilege.