Difficulties with evidence of DV (written letters from abuser)

[QuillerGal]

What is the name of your state?New York

I was in an ongoing abusive relationship. It was physically, sexually, and psychologically abusive. I moved to New York when we married, so I didn't have friends of my own in the local community. The abuse was secret and I don't have medical records or photos.

My husband wrote several emails to me describing his abuse and bragging about how he got away with it. In these emails he described the abuse in detail including dates and specific acts. My husband describes himself in the emails as a con man whose scammed me, his friends and family, and the government. He lied to his friends and family and tricked them into thinking i was abusing him and he explained how he got away with it in the emails.

I've moved into a safe residence and I wanted to try to press charges. I went to the police with the emails. The police said they can't treat his emails as evidence because they can only use written statements from honest people.

What the police officers explained was that if my husband was a honest person who knocked me around, then emails admitting abusing me would be good evidence. But, since he's admitted to being a sleazy con man he can't do anything to incriminate himself. Since he's not trustworthy they have to simply ignore anything from him. They also said they can't look into whether he really did get away with scamming other people or the government because the only evidence they have is his emails which they have to ignore. They said that because of "fruit of the poisoned tree" they can't investigate any crimes that come from these emails.

The police also told me that since I'd read his emails, they couldn't take a statement from me about being abused. They said that anything I might say would be tainted by knowing what he'd written and so I'm not allowed to make a statement.

I don't understand how emails written by a con man admitting that he's abused and conned people can be so powerful that they can both gag me from being able to make a statement and prevent the police from investigating crimes.

Is this right or are the police just bullshitting me? I heard the officers I spoke to making comments to each other that they thought I was just there to get #MeToo attention when they thought I couldn't hear them.

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state?New York

I was in an ongoing abusive relationship. It was physically, sexually, and psychologically abusive. I moved to New York when we married, so I didn't have friends of my own in the local community. The abuse was secret and I don't have medical records or photos.

My husband wrote several emails to me describing his abuse and bragging about how he got away with it. In these emails he described the abuse in detail including dates and specific acts. My husband describes himself in the emails as a con man whose scammed me, his friends and family, and the government. He lied to his friends and family and tricked them into thinking i was abusing him and he explained how he got away with it in the emails.

I've moved into a safe residence and I wanted to try to press charges. I went to the police with the emails. The police said they can't treat his emails as evidence because they can only use written statements from honest people.

What the police officers explained was that if my husband was a honest person who knocked me around, then emails admitting abusing me would be good evidence. But, since he's admitted to being a sleazy con man he can't do anything to incriminate himself. Since he's not trustworthy they have to simply ignore anything from him. They also said they can't look into whether he really did get away with scamming other people or the government because the only evidence they have is his emails which they have to ignore. They said that because of "fruit of the poisoned tree" they can't investigate any crimes that come from these emails.

The police also told me that since I'd read his emails, they couldn't take a statement from me about being abused. They said that anything I might say would be tainted by knowing what he'd written and so I'm not allowed to make a statement.

I don't understand how emails written by a con man admitting that he's abused and conned people can be so powerful that they can both gag me from being able to make a statement and prevent the police from investigating crimes.

Is this right or are the police just bullshitting me? I heard the officers I spoke to making comments to each other that they thought I was just there to get #MeToo attention when they thought I couldn't hear them.

Go up the chain of command. Keep trying.

 

[not2cleverRed]

The police are not lawyers. Their job is to respond to emergencies, not practice law.

He is not going to be arrested for being a creep.

However, if you wanted to make a report about recent abuse, they should have taken your report.

Do you have a restraining order against him? Have you gone to Family Court to petition for a restraining order? You can do this ex parte (just you, without him) to get a temporary order. https://family-law.freeadvice.com/family-law/domestic_violence/new-york-restraining-orders.htm

Voice of experience: do not count on police to give you accurate advice about anything to do with court. I was told by the local police to just go to at Family Court when it opened Monday morning. Um, no. You have to get yourself on the calendar, and each court has its own particular way of doing it.

(I should have known better. They'd been equally useless when responding to a 911 call about one of my husband's physical assaults. Like, they told me to be at court in the morning at one time, to get a TRO. He was released an hour earlier than that, I wasn't told, I find out because he's walked the 1/2 mile home and is banging on the door to get in. Held barely 6 hours.)

 

[Mass_Shyster]

This reminds me of Joe Pesci's opening statement in My Cousin Vinny: "Everything that guy just said is Bull@#$%"

There is no honesty requirement for police to accept a confession or admission.

Your statement cannot be "tainted" because your abuser admitted his crimes to you.

"Fruits of the poisonous tree" doctrine refers to evidence that is gathered as a direct result of an illegal search. That does not apply here.

I have no idea why this guy is trying to protect your abuser, but it seems pretty clear that's what's happening.

As others said, continue going up the chain of command until you get results. You may want to consider filing a complaint against the officer who refused to take your statement.

 

[QuillerGal]

Go up the chain of command. Keep trying.

This reminds me of Joe Pesci's opening statement in My Cousin Vinny: "Everything that guy just said is Bull@#$%"

There is no honesty requirement for police to accept a confession or admission.

Your statement cannot be "tainted" because your abuser admitted his crimes to you.

"Fruits of the poisonous tree" doctrine refers to evidence that is gathered as a direct result of an illegal search. That does not apply here.

I have no idea why this guy is trying to protect your abuser, but it seems pretty clear that's what's happening.

As others said, continue going up the chain of command until you get results. You may want to consider filing a complaint against the officer who refused to take your statement.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Would it be okay to ask what part of what the police told me is wrong? Would it be all of it, or just part of it? Are there any online legal resources on what can be used in incriminating emails? I tried going to google but I find a lot of TV plots. TV law isn't real law.

It would be really helpful to have some sort of information to politely correct things the police say that are wrong. I certainly don't want to pick a fight with police or wrongly correct the police if part of what they say is right.

Either way, thank you for answering my question.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Take what you have and your story to someone higher in rank. If you are reasonable when you talk to them you don't need to worry about picking a fight with the police.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Would it be okay to ask what part of what the police told me is wrong? Would it be all of it, or just part of it? Are there any online legal resources on what can be used in incriminating emails? I tried going to google but I find a lot of TV plots. TV law isn't real law.

It would be really helpful to have some sort of information to politely correct things the police say that are wrong. I certainly don't want to pick a fight with police or wrongly correct the police if part of what they say is right.

Either way, thank you for answering my question.

You're a "civilian". They won't listen. They are spewing legal gobbley gook (probably based on some TV shows that they have watched).

1) Go up higher in the chain of command. (Can't hurt. They aren't helping you now.)
2) Contact a local Domestic Violence service organization.

I'm not sure what "charges" you want to file.
And, if there were specific instances of physical abuse, I don't know why you'd bring emails rather than just report what happened to you, in your own words.

You seem uninterested in getting a stay away order, so perhaps you already have one. But if not, that's where you should start.

His "scams" seem to be about making you look bad. However, rather than suing for defamation, filing for divorce might make more sense.

 

[Just Blue]

@QuillerGal ...Do you have children with your husband?

 

[commentator]

You....lets see...you went in to the local police department with a handful of emails. You want to press charges for what? What specific incident of domestic violence are you talking about pressing charged about? When did your husband write these emails? Before during or after the time you lived with him? When did you download them? What, exactly do you want to happen?

Can your safe house situation connect you with legal services of some type, help you obtain some sort of order of protection, get legal counsel? I can see why you'd be sending very strange signals to law enforcement, as I am having and most of us here are having a problem with exactly what you would like to accomplish when you talk to the police.

You do realize that you are going in with a pile of paper which you say completely exposes your husband as...what? A physical abuser? A financial abuser? A psychological abuser? A tax evader? And you want to what? Have him arrested, tried and convicted of something? You do realize that anyone can create and print off emails don't you? I am having trouble understanding exactly why, at this convenient moment your husband would write all this stuff down, admitting wrongdoing on many levels and send you these emails, clearly detailing his crimes to you. It sounds a bit...well, improbable. Why don't you just put away the emails for right now, and file a complaint against your husband for domestic abuse? They should be willing to take your complaint, if there is something specific you're talking about that didn't happen like years ago.

 

[xylene]

Get your own lawyer. Sue ex and go to police.

 

[LdiJ]

You....lets see...you went in to the local police department with a handful of emails. You want to press charges for what? What specific incident of domestic violence are you talking about pressing charged about? When did your husband write these emails? Before during or after the time you lived with him? When did you download them? What, exactly do you want to happen?

Can your safe house situation connect you with legal services of some type, help you obtain some sort of order of protection, get legal counsel? I can see why you'd be sending very strange signals to law enforcement, as I am having and most of us here are having a problem with exactly what you would like to accomplish when you talk to the police.

You do realize that you are going in with a pile of paper which you say completely exposes your husband as...what? A physical abuser? A financial abuser? A psychological abuser? A tax evader? And you want to what? Have him arrested, tried and convicted of something? You do realize that anyone can create and print off emails don't you? I am having trouble understanding exactly why, at this convenient moment your husband would write all this stuff down, admitting wrongdoing on many levels and send you these emails, clearly detailing his crimes to you. It sounds a bit...well, improbable. Why don't you just put away the emails for right now, and file a complaint against your husband for domestic abuse? They should be willing to take your complaint, if there is something specific you're talking about that didn't happen like years ago.

When an abuser loses control of their victim, they escalate and try to find some way to continue the abuse. Taunting their victim is a classic way that an abuser tries to continue the abuse. Therefore I don't find this story implausible.

 

[not2cleverRed]

When an abuser loses control of their victim, they escalate and try to find some way to continue the abuse. Taunting their victim is a classic way that an abuser tries to continue the abuse. Therefore I don't find this story implausible.

In the absence of some sort of restraining/no contact order, taunting emails are legal.

And because the emails are non-threatening (he is not threatening her with physical harm, future tense), they are not useful in obtaining a restraining/no contact order.

New York has very specific criteria for this.

 

[LdiJ]

In the absence of some sort of restraining/no contact order, taunting emails are legal.

And because the emails are non-threatening (he is not threatening her with physical harm, future tense), they are not useful in obtaining a restraining/no contact order.

New York has very specific criteria for this.

I don't think that a restraining order was what she was trying to obtain. I think that she was trying to get him arrested for domestic violence and was attempting to use the emails as a confession from him that he did it. I really found that the way the police responded to her to be disturbing.

This paragraph in particular:

What the police officers explained was that if my husband was a honest person who knocked me around, then emails admitting abusing me would be good evidence. But, since he's admitted to being a sleazy con man he can't do anything to incriminate himself. Since he's not trustworthy they have to simply ignore anything from him. They also said they can't look into whether he really did get away with scamming other people or the government because the only evidence they have is his emails which they have to ignore. They said that because of "fruit of the poisoned tree" they can't investigate any crimes that come from these emails.

 

[not2cleverRed]

I don't think that a restraining order was what she was trying to obtain. I think that she was trying to get him arrested for domestic violence and was attempting to use the emails as a confession from him that he did it. I really found that the way the police responded to her to be disturbing.

This paragraph in particular:

Her ignorance of the law, I understand. She is trying to get out of a bad relationship, and doesn't know the process.

However, your post, showing your lack of legal understanding, is appalling. One does not get arrested for "domestic violence" in New York. One gets arrested for assault, battery, assault and battery, etc. As far as psychological abuse - no, the police are not going to arrest anyone for that based on some emails or texts.

In reporting an incident of domestic violence perpetrated on oneself, one reports in first person, "My husband did xyz to me." Corroborating evidence would be visible damage, medical reports for injuries, etc. Not emails. If something went to the point of being prosecuted, they might be interested in the emails, but more likely not.

She did not first attempt to report what happened to her. She came up with some emails.

Furthermore, because everything she's complaining about is past tense, it is worth it to get the restraining order - and the quicker she tries, the better, because for Family Court they ask for 3 recent incidents (within the past 2-3 months). And it does not have to be super dramatic. Things like being hit in the face with stale bread counts. There need not be a police report for each incident, although any police report might help a victim come across as more credible.

Oh, and violations of an order, even one from Family Court, can be result in an arrest - those emails could be used as grounds for arrest if there were a no contact order.

If OP wants the guy out of her life, she should get some form of a stay away order from Family Court, and then report every violation.

However, if she just wants revenge (and that's rather how it sounds), that's a civil matter. And that can be addressed in the divorce.

 

[LdiJ]

[QUOTE="not2cleverRed, post: 3640148, member: 418314"

However, your post, showing your lack of legal understanding, is appalling. One does not get arrested for "domestic violence" in New York. One gets arrested for assault, battery, assault and battery, etc. As far as psychological abuse - no, the police are not going to arrest anyone for that based on some emails or texts.[/quote]


Pound sand Red. I was trying to explain her point of view, not express a legal opinion, as it appeared to me that you misunderstood her point of view. No, I am not an expert on criminal law, but you are definitely splitting hairs with that statement.

I