CA - Audio recording minor child in my own home

[arkera]

I'm in California. I have a 13 year old child and am in the middle of a custody battle. My son is lying about me to his dad so that he can live in a more comfortable home, fewer (if any) rules/chores/obligations, and closer to his girlfriend. Dad of course is furious that I would be so abusive (lies) and has filed for full custody.

My son asked to come over last night, however because of the lies, while I said sure (hoping for the best), I decided to start an audio recorder (preparing for the worst). Turns out, we had an emotional conversation and he ultimately admitted he'd been lying just to get his way...

I know CA law says all parties need to consent to the recording, but because he's 13 and can't give legal consent like an adult could, can I basically do so as his parent? I have been researching up a storm, but all anything ever says is that CA requires all parties give consent. A WIRED article says it's been determined as ok, because "The defendant must have the intent to use the illicit recording to commit a tort of crime beyond the act of recording itself“ but I can't tell if that's just NY or country-wide...

Can I use this recording in court?

 

[xylene]

Instead of playing a high stakes game of audio gotcha of dubious legality, why can't you see that your co-parenting relationship with dad is terrible and needs big repairs.

Why does your son have so much power in your family dynamic?

 

[quincy]

I'm in California. I have a 13 year old child and am in the middle of a custody battle. My son is lying about me to his dad so that he can live in a more comfortable home, fewer (if any) rules/chores/obligations, and closer to his girlfriend. Dad of course is furious that I would be so abusive (lies) and has filed for full custody.

My son asked to come over last night, however because of the lies, while I said sure (hoping for the best), I decided to start an audio recorder (preparing for the worst). Turns out, we had an emotional conversation and he ultimately admitted he'd been lying just to get his way...

I know CA law says all parties need to consent to the recording, but because he's 13 and can't give legal consent like an adult could, can I basically do so as his parent? I have been researching up a storm, but all anything ever says is that CA requires all parties give consent. A WIRED article says it's been determined as ok, because "The defendant must have the intent to use the illicit recording to commit a tort of crime beyond the act of recording itself“ but I can't tell if that's just NY or country-wide...

Can I use this recording in court?

WARNING: The content of the case cited below contains sexually explicit testimony and is disturbing.

Read In Re Trever P. , F073691, a December 14, 2017 California Court of Appeals decision.

The case discusses surreptitious recordings and their admissibility as evidence.

You as his parent can give the necessary consent for your son to permit the recording of a conversation between you and your son.

Home security cameras and "nanny cams" have been found legal in California. Whether these recordings can be introduced as evidence in a court action depends on the specifics.

I agree with xylene that there are better ways to address the problems you are having.

 

[arkera]

Yes, things between me and the ex could be a lot better... except for some rockiness during the divorce though, we'd been doing really well cooperatively... however, for the last six months our son has been spiraling out of control and we've had some differences in opinion on how to handle that. And now he thinks my solution is violence... which has NEVER EVER been an option. Now there is no convincing him that our son is lying through his teeth, so our communication has completely broken down. We're not perfect people, there's a reason we're not together anymore, but we were doing just fine until recently.

As far as the power dynamic, I'm of the belief that the more experienced with a wider perspective parents should be calling the shots. My ex is really laissez faire... our son is taking advantage of the dual home, dual parenting-style situation. I really wish we could present a united front, but unless/until I present this evidence in court, I am just talking to a brick wall.

 

[quincy]

Yes, things between me and the ex could be a lot better... except for some rockiness during the divorce though, we'd been doing really well cooperatively... however, for the last six months our son has been spiraling out of control and we've had some differences in opinion on how to handle that. And now he thinks my solution is violence... which has NEVER EVER been an option. Now there is no convincing him that our son is lying through his teeth, so our communication has completely broken down. We're not perfect people, there's a reason we're not together anymore, but we were doing just fine until recently.

As far as the power dynamic, I'm of the belief that the more experienced with a wider perspective parents should be calling the shots. My ex is really laissez faire... our son is taking advantage of the dual home, dual parenting-style situation. I really wish we could present a united front, but unless/until I present this evidence in court, I am just talking to a brick wall.

Teenagers are adept at playing one parent against the other, whether the
teenager lives in an intact home or has parents who live apart.

Counseling could help you and your ex learn to work better together to prevent your son from succeeding in his (perfectly normal) attempts at manipulation.

Teenagers are a challenge. Good luck.

 

[xylene]

As far as the power dynamic, I'm of the belief that the more experienced with a wider perspective parents should be calling the shots.

This is a really fancy way of saying "my way or the highway" in approaches to child rearing.

You can expect people to be intractable when you are intractable. Your son is or is going to be in high school.

 

[quincy]

As a note: I reported my earlier post because I questioned my own wisdom in posting a link to In Re Trevor P.. Although the discussion of surreptitious recordings in California is a good and thorough one and worth reading, the facts of the case itself are not ones that are easy to read.

 

[Just Blue]

As a note: I reported my earlier post because I questioned my own wisdom in posting a link to In Re Trevor P.. Although the discussion of surreptitious recordings in California is a good and thorough one and worth reading, the facts of the case itself are not ones that are easy to read.

I had to stop reading. I had tears in my eyes and was sick to my stomach.

 

[LdiJ]

Yes, things between me and the ex could be a lot better... except for some rockiness during the divorce though, we'd been doing really well cooperatively... however, for the last six months our son has been spiraling out of control and we've had some differences in opinion on how to handle that. And now he thinks my solution is violence... which has NEVER EVER been an option. Now there is no convincing him that our son is lying through his teeth, so our communication has completely broken down. We're not perfect people, there's a reason we're not together anymore, but we were doing just fine until recently.

As far as the power dynamic, I'm of the belief that the more experienced with a wider perspective parents should be calling the shots. My ex is really laissez faire... our son is taking advantage of the dual home, dual parenting-style situation. I really wish we could present a united front, but unless/until I present this evidence in court, I am just talking to a brick wall.

Have you considered making a copy of the recording for dad? Or, getting dad to agree to a joint session with you and he and a counselor and playing the tape there?

 

[quincy]

Have you considered making a copy of the recording for dad? Or, getting dad to agree to a joint session with you and he and a counselor and playing the tape there?

I am not convinced that the recording should be played at all for anyone.

For one thing, the recording was done by arkera so arkera was able to direct the path of the conversation and her own comments to make the recording favorable to her. I am not saying this was done but it certainly raises legitimate questions.

For another thing, it could be viewed by the son as an abuse of trust. The son is unlikely to be as open in speaking to his mom in the future if he fears his words will be used against him or used as a tool in a custody "battle."

The parents need to start acting as a parental unit now if they hope to have any control over their teenager later.

 

[LdiJ]

I am not convinced that the recording should be played at all for anyone.

For one thing, the recording was done by arkera so arkera was able to direct the path of the conversation and her own comments to make the recording favorable to her. I am not saying this was done but it certainly raises legitimate questions.

For another thing, it could be viewed by the son as an abuse of trust. The son is unlikely to be as open in speaking to his mom in the future if he fears his words will be used against him or used as a tool in a custody "battle."

The parents need to start acting as a parental unit now if they hope to have any control over their teenager later.

I agree with you Quincy, but if dad is not going to believe that son is playing the two parents off of each other, how is mom supposed to convince him to believe that without the tape? Dad has already filed for full custody based on the son's lies.

When our daughter started playing that game I was lucky that my ex believed me and presented a united parental front. Had he not, it could have been a mess.

 

[quincy]

I agree with you Quincy, but if dad is not going to believe that son is playing the two parents off of each other, how is mom supposed to convince him to believe that without the tape? Dad has already filed for full custody based on the son's lies.

When our daughter started playing that game I was lucky that my ex believed me and presented a united parental front. Had he not, it could have been a mess.

The recording really proves nothing. Recordings can be manipulated just like the parents can be.

That is where counseling for the parents plays an important role. If the parents are going to believe everything their teenager says over the word of the other parent, neither parent is in control. The teenager is.

 

[xylene]

More bluntly: How did a 13 year old need to be (or even allowed to be) having secret consequence free confessional conversations with a parent?

This whole situation is out of control.

 

[arkera]

My son came over to try to corner me into caving on the court case. He kept asking “are you going to let me choose where I want to live or not” “I’m just trying to do what’s in my best interests” “the things that made me want to not live here are one time you snapped at me when your car overheated last summer, you don’t show me enough love, you still had sex with my father after you were divorced, you could have a better job but you don’t even try”

I didn’t guide this conversation. I let him say his piece while I was an active listener. At one point, I said “but you lied” he responded with “yes, I lied because I thought it would be better for everyone. So everyone would think I was a happy normal kid that wanted to go to college and s&!t, but I don’t”