Entrapment for Enticement of a Minor

[devdog720]

This is in Utah.

Hypothetically. If I was on an app for chatting with and meeting people that is 18+ only. Many members of the app are here to hookup. I struggle with a sex addiction and am looking for a hookup. I message a profile looking to hookup where the person's age is listed as 23, clearly legal age. They respond with a handle for another app that I message. A few messages later after asking again if they want to hookup they message they are actually under the listed/legal age. It is the police catfishing. Due to lack of control due to addiction, it leads to a bad situation. Disregarding what follows, can it be considered entrapment if the initial age on a legal 18+ app is a lie?

 

[justalayman]

No, not even close.

What happened prior to knowing the person was under 18 is not criminal. It’s what happened once you became aware of the person being under 18, or it can be determined you should have known the person was under 18. If you continued after that point, there is no defense to illegal actions from that point forward

 

[devdog720]

So the police can create profiles that "lie" about their age on an 18+ site? Isn't that inducing someone who is not looking for someone of an illegal age? Again hypothetically, if I have no history or ever discussed pedophilic activity, and would never have gone looking for it, is this not inducement?

 

[quincy]

This is in Utah.

Hypothetically. If I was on an app for chatting with and meeting people that is 18+ only. Many members of the app are here to hookup. I struggle with a sex addiction and am looking for a hookup. I message a profile looking to hookup where the person's age is listed as 23, clearly legal age. They respond with a handle for another app that I message. A few messages later after asking again if they want to hookup they message they are actually under the listed/legal age. It is the police catfishing. Due to lack of control due to addiction, it leads to a bad situation. Disregarding what follows, can it be considered entrapment if the initial age on a legal 18+ app is a lie?

How old are you? Was the legal age for both apps 18+?

What do you mean by "disregarding what follows?" What followed that you want us to disregard?

Did you ever send, or ask to have sent to you, any explicit photos/videos - either when you thought you were communicating with a 23 year old or after you learned you weren't?

To answer one question you ask: Yes. Police can lie.

 

[devdog720]

Hypothetically. The first app's legal age was 18+ where I initially solicited a response, the 2nd was not. Age mid-20's. One explicit photo was sent. "Disregarding what follows" is a poor choice of words. What I meant was just concerning the original contact, would that be considered inducement?

 

[quincy]

The first app's legal age was 18+ where I initially solicited a response. "Disregarding what follows" is a poor choice of words. What I meant was just concerning the original contact, would that be considered inducement?

If you were told, and you had no reason to doubt, that you were communicating with a 23 year old, it could be considered inducement for the police to lead you to, or tempt you into, committing a crime with a minor that you otherwise would not have committed.

As soon as you learned the 23 year old was really a minor, however, you needed to stop whatever you might have been doing that would have been legal with another adult but illegal with the minor.

For entrapment, see US v. Ortiz, C.A. Utah, 804 F.2d 1161, 1165.

 

[devdog720]

Hypothetically. From my understanding according to my entrapment research, for the subjective standard: "Thus, the burden is on the defendant to show that the actions of the government officials were so overbearing and extreme as to constitute the primary reason for the crime to occur, OR that the defendant had no prior motivation or disposition to complete the crime." I had no disposition to complete the crime nor have I had any criminal history and was prior in no sense a criminal to target... I was not looking for it and had never discussed or looked for anything related to the crime before.

 

[devdog720]

Quincy: Thank you for your response. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[quincy]

Hypothetically. From my understanding according to my entrapment research, for the subjective standard: "Thus, the burden is on the defendant to show that the actions of the government officials were so overbearing and extreme as to constitute the primary reason for the crime to occur, OR that the defendant had no prior motivation or disposition to complete the crime." I had no disposition to complete the crime nor have I had any criminal history and was prior in no sense a criminal to target... I was not looking for it and had never discussed or looked for anything related to the crime before.

If you sent an explicit photo to someone who said they were 23 (and you had no reason to believe they weren't 23), that does not violate a law.

As soon as that person posing as a 23 year old tells you they are under 18, however, you cannot continue to send explicit texts or photos without violating the law.

It could be inducement/entrapment to charge you with a crime for sending the first photo, in other words, but it would not be inducement/entrapment to charge you with a crime for sending any additional photos after you learned the person was a minor.

 

[quincy]

Here is a link to Ortiz, which describes the elements necessary to prove entrapment:

https://m.openjurist.org/804/f2d/1161

 

[devdog720]

The photo is not what I'm questioning to prove entrapment, just the original contact. Also a detail I failed to provide, that was the 2nd time I found a profile on the app with a fake age - previously I found a profile with a legal age and after messaging a similar incident occurred where it was revealed the age was fake, so there were two different profiles on there for the same purpose. Don't know if it's relevant but thought I would provide that detail. I will look at Ortiz. Thank you Quincy.

 

[quincy]

The photo is not what I'm questioning to prove entrapment, just the original contact. Also a detail I failed to provide, that was the 2nd time I found a profile on the app with a fake age - previously I found a profile with a legal age and after messaging a similar incident occurred where it was revealed the age was fake, so there were two different profiles on there for the same purpose. Don't know if it's relevant but thought I would provide that detail. I will look at Ortiz. Thank you Quincy.

I think you would be smart to stop using that app.

If you continue to use that app, I would refrain from sending any explicit texts or photos until you can verify the age of the person with whom you are communicating.

And you might want to inform the police that minors are posing as over-18s on the app. Of course, if it is the police who are doing the posing, they will already know this.

 

[justalayman]

The photo is not what I'm questioning to prove entrapment, just the original contact. Also a detail I failed to provide, that was the 2nd time I found a profile on the app with a fake age - previously I found a profile with a legal age and after messaging a similar incident occurred where it was revealed the age was fake, so there were two different profiles on there for the same purpose. Don't know if it's relevant but thought I would provide that detail. I will look at Ortiz. Thank you Quincy.

Nothing you have posted suggests entrapment. Telling you the person you were communicating with was an adult, even if it was eventually discovered itnwas a minor is not entrapment. You were obligated to discontinue contact once it was realized or should have realized the person was a minor. If you continued contact after that point, which is where the legal jeopardy would attach, there would be neither entrapment or any defense of ignorance.

 

[Just Blue]

Hypothetically this thread could turn into 10 pages discussing a hypothetical situation.

 

[CdwJava]

And, quite frankly, the police do not spend a great deal of time playing in these chat room - the cost-benefit evaluation is rather low to go fishing like that. Most the underage posers are either private vigilantes, or, (most often) they are scam artists seeking to use comments, links, images, etc. as leverage for financial gain.