Involuntary reclass

[Analiaallen]

I’m 12R in AD army. I was told there’s an overstrength in electricians, carpenters, plumbers etc. and that everyone will have to reclass under a new MOS. I was going to wait a couple of months until my promotion to specialist to reclass to 12P (can’t do it unless you’re a specialist) now they’re saying I can’t do that and I can only chose selected MOS they want me to do such as work in jail or infantry. There is a need for 12P but they’re saying if I try to fight and try to chose an MOS not in a list they’re just going to reclass me to infatry since I’m showing them that I “hate my job.” Can they do this? I don’t want to sign a new contract and be stuck in infantry for the next 4 years.

 

[adjusterjack]

Can they do this?

They sure can.

I don’t want to sign a new contract and be stuck in infantry for the next 4 years.

Then don't.

 

[Taxing Matters]

There are certain rules for how they do classifications, but having said that the rules largely say that in the end the military may assign their soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines to do any task the military needs them to do. When you sign up for the military they will try to get you your preferred job but they do not guarantee you'll get it and don't guarantee that once in the military you won't have to change your job. Basically your job is what the military says it is. You certainly don't have to sign a new contract. So if you don't want to do that, don't. The military will then assign you based on its need and what the rules allow it do. That may or may not be a job you want. If you don't like it, you are free to leave the military when your term of enlistment expires. If you really want to understand what the military can do and what options you have, see an attorney in JAG or a private attorney who practices military law to review what the applicable law is here.

 

[justalayman]

There are certain rules for how they do classifications, but having said that the rules largely say that in the end the military may assign their soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines to do any task the military needs them to do. When you sign up for the military they will try to get you your preferred job but they do not guarantee you'll get it and don't guarantee that once in the military you won't have to change your job. Basically your job is what the military says it is. You certainly don't have to sign a new contract. So if you don't want to do that, don't. The military will then assign you based on its need and what the rules allow it do. That may or may not be a job you want. If you don't like it, you are free to leave the military when your term of enlistment expires. If you really want to understand what the military can do and what options you have, see an attorney in JAG or a private attorney who practices military law to review what the applicable law is here.

I don’t know when they changed that but it used to be you could sign an actual contract for a specific MOS when entering the military. I know of more than one person who was separated due to the military not complying with the contract. Everything I find now states this is still the case.



Of course there is no requirement the military offer you to remain in your prior mos when re-signing. In such a case the option would be to accept an open mos contract, an mos offered, or refuse to re-enlist.

 

[Taxing Matters]

I don’t know when they changed that but it used to be you could sign an actual contract for a specific MOS when entering the military. I know of more than one person who was separated due to the military not complying with the contract. Everything I find now states this is still the case.

As far as I know you still can do the contract, but buried in that contract is that the military can ultimately reassign you to some other position if it needs to. So you may start with one MOS, but if the military needs you in another position ultimately that's where you'll be if you want to stay.

 

[FlyingRon]

The Army is the only service that does guarantee a MOS at the time of enlistment. However, as TM points out, reclasses are not prohibited and not even uncommon. The standing army now is again overstrength, and their not going to carry people in MOSs they don't need (they don't even do that in times of build up), and they're not obliged to move you to an MOS that they feel you are unqualified for (even if that qualification is an arbitrary time in rank thing). Your only real options are to accept the reclass and push for an MOS change once you are eligible, or decline and leave the service.

Unfortunately, there's no appeal process for this. The best you can hope for is to contact someone who has need for the MOS you want and see if they can wrangle a spot for you until you qualify.

 

[Shadowbunny]

I don’t know when they changed that but it used to be you could sign an actual contract for a specific MOS when entering the military. I know of more than one person who was separated due to the military not complying with the contract. Everything I find now states this is still the case.

The Army is the only branch that guarantees jobs, the AF, Navy and Marines do not. It's actually one of the selling points of the Army; the ability to choose one's job. The other branches have "some" guaranteed jobs, but most folks don't get that option.

 

[justalayman]

The Army is the only branch that guarantees jobs, the AF, Navy and Marines do not. It's actually one of the selling points of the Army; the ability to choose one's job. The other branches have "some" guaranteed jobs, but most folks don't get that option.

op IS in the ARMY. That makes the discussion about the army.



your statement makes no sense. You said only the army guarantees mos assignment yet you go on to say other branches do in some situations. I guess that means the army isn’t the only branch that guarantees a job.

So, in other words, all branches do offer guaranteed contracts but they are not applicable in all situations. In other words, kind of like the army since they also have enlistments without guarantees of classification as well.

 

[FlyingRon]

The Army is unique that it guarantees an initial MOS on enlistment (you must have basic qualifications and there must be slots available in the MOS for it to be offered to you). However, it's not a forever guarantee. In fact, the fact that many of these building trades are way over strength for junior enlistees is pretty much well known in the press. The poster is not unique in this.

As for other services, they pretty much will guarantee a general category on enlistment, but a specific MOS is not provided. Even so, there are all sorts of conditions and exceptions. The Coast Guard is pretty unique in not making any representations as to what you'll be doing once you enlist.

 

[justalayman]

The Army is unique that it guarantees an initial MOS on enlistment (you must have basic qualifications and there must be slots available in the MOS for it to be offered to you).

Since the Army and Marines are the only branches that have MOS, that means 50% of the branches that have an MOS offer guaranteed MOS. Not all that unique in the big picture.

The other branches have other designations for jobs. Example: Air Force have AFSC (Air Force specialty codes)

The Navy used to guarantee a specific NOS (Naval Occupational Specialty) I don’t know if they do any longer. I can’t find official support of it being continued but there are informational sites from private entities that are stating it is still true.

Obviously for the guarantee to be enforceable the recruit must be able to pass any applicable training.

 

[FlyingRon]

OK, minor nomenclature nit. The navy calls them NOS (N for Navy rather than M for military). The Airforce calls the AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code). They all are equivalent terms. The use of MOS is not INCORRECT when referring to the services in general as the DoD lumps all of these into the MOSC (MOS Code).

The navy will guarantee you a Rating I believe but not a specific NOS these days.

Again, the military is over strength, and in some jobs way over strength. They're not inclined to bend over to get an active duty person into a filled or overfilled specialty.

 

[justalayman]

OK, minor nomenclature nit. The navy calls them NOS (N for Navy rather than M for military). The Airforce calls the AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code). They all are equivalent terms. The use of MOS is not INCORRECT when referring to the services in general as the DoD lumps all of these into the MOSC (MOS Code).

The navy will guarantee you a Rating I believe but not a specific NOS these days.

Again, the military is over strength, and in some jobs way over strength. They're not inclined to bend over to get an active duty person into a filled or overfilled specialty.

Yes, I was being pedantic


But through all of this I think the issue of forced mos reassignment got a bit buried

I think the op needs to understand that while the powers that be can move him from his current mos, he doesn’t necessarily have any input into where he goes although he may. . Bottom line is if they are over strength, they do have the right to reduce manpower in those mos and since he has no enforceable guarantee for whatever new classification he will end up in, it becomes a choice he doesn’t get to control.

My understanding is if he has a duty guarantee, he should be able to obtain a discharge if he cannot be placed somewhere He is willing to accept. Without an enforceable guarantee he is at the whim of the powers that be.

If he is near the end of his contract he can simply choose to not re-enlist when his contract expires.


And corrections or additions to that Ron?


Now my 2 cents:

It would seem a logical move from 12r to 12p and unless the op has some issue I see the refusal as a waste of resources. He is in a similar tech area and the training for 12r would surely be beneficial to a 12p classification. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to block him from what is somewhat of a lateral move in technical knowledge classifications

 

[FlyingRon]

Nope, and in fact, I believe I already made the points you made. Understand that even in the Army, there are no absolute guarantees. I can say for

Right now, as the offer is on the table, he can sign a new contract with Infantry (or whatever MOS is available to him) or he can get discharged.
I indicated what he might try to get into the MOS he really wanted. I've never seen the enlistment addendum (which is where such guarantees that are made), that didn't provide for a MOS reclass at the Army's discretion. Further, nothing binds the military from handing a rifle to someone in a construction MOS and telling them to go play infantryman if needed.

 

[justalayman]

You may have and some i did cull from your posts. I simply wanted to get beyond all the adjunct discussion and make it concise for the op.