May officers detain visitors during probation searches?

[joehrobin]

California
When conducting a probation search of a residence, under what circumstances may officers detain visitors?
It was just a regular routine search there was no reason to believe that probationer had violated the terms of his probation. While speaking with probationer at the front door, the deputies determined that a guest was also in the house. So they ordered both men to step outside where they were pat searched, detained and directed to sit on the front porch. Only TEN minutes later deputies ran a warrant check on the guest and where informed that he also was on Post-Release Community Supervision.

 

[Just Blue]

When conducting a probation search of a residence, under what circumstances may officers detain visitors?

What state?

 

[quincy]

When conducting a probation search of a residence, under what circumstances may officers detain visitors?

What is the name of your state?

What is the reason for your question? Your question as asked is too broad for anyone here to give you a good answer.

 

[Taxing Matters]

When conducting a probation search of a residence, under what circumstances may officers detain visitors?

Both the state in which this takes place and the details of the search matter. There are all kinds of reasons that a cop might have for detaining the persons in the home other than the probationer, and that will turn on what the circumstances are when the cops arrive for the search.

 

[joehrobin]

What is the name of your state?

What is the reason for your question? Your question as asked is too broad for anyone here to give you a good answer.

Both the state in which this takes place and the details of the search matter. There are all kinds of reasons that a cop might have for detaining the persons in the home other than the probationer, and that will turn on what the circumstances are when the cops arrive for the search.

California and just a routine search

 

[joehrobin]

Both the state in which this takes place and the details of the search matter. There are all kinds of reasons that a cop might have for detaining the persons in the home other than the probationer, and that will turn on what the circumstances are when the cops arrive for the search.

California and just a routine search there was no reason to believe that probationer had violated the terms of his probation. While speaking with probationer at the front door, the deputies determined that a guest was also in the house. So they ordered both men to step outside where they were pat searched and directed to sit on the front porch. Ten minutes later deputies ran a warrant check on the guest and where informed that he also was on Post-Release Community Supervision.

 

[quincy]

California and just a routine search there was no reason to believe that probationer had violated the terms of his probation. While speaking with probationer at the front door, the deputies determined that a guest was also in the house. So they ordered both men to step outside where they were pat searched and directed to sit on the front porch. Ten minutes later deputies ran a warrant check on the guest and where informed that he also was on Post-Release Community Supervision.

A condition of probation can restrict with whom a probationer can associate.

Here is a link to probation supervised release conditions:
https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/visits-probation-officer-probation-supervised-release-conditions

What a probation officer is permitted to do depends on the specific terms and conditions of probation for the particular probationer. Some will allow for warrantless searches of the probationer and his residence at any time and at any place while others will allow for warrantless searches only on a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed.

If you are wondering if there was anything wrong with the police detaining the probationer’s visitor while the house was searched, the answer is probably not.

 

[Taxing Matters]

So they ordered both men to step outside...

Certainly nothing wrong with the officers having the guest out of the residence while it is being searched.

...where they were pat searched and directed to sit on the front porch.

If the guest is also on parole or probation and the terms of that parole/probation allow the officers to search the guest anywhere then he's got no complaint here.

If the guest was not on probation/parole or the guest was not subject to conditions allowing the officers to search him anywhere then the brieg search might have been a problem had something illegal been found. Was something illegal found?

As to being "directed" to sit on the porch, did the officer ask the guest to sit or was it clearly a command? And was it clear the guest was not free to leave? If the guest had not been on probation/parole and if the cops had no reasonable and articulable suspicion that the guest was involved in any criminal activity then the guest should not have been detained — the cops should have let him go on his way if he wanted. After all, they were there to search resident of their probationer.

Ten minutes later deputies ran a warrant check on the guest and where informed that he also was on Post-Release Community Supervision.

There certainly was no problem with running the warrant check and finding out the status of of the guest.

What was the outcome for the guest? Was he arrested or cited for anything?

Here is a link to probation supervised release conditions:
https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/visits-probation-officer-probation-supervised-release-conditions

quincy's information above applies to persons who are on federal probation. So if the guest was not on federal probation that information wouldn't help him. It's more likely that he was on state probation since the state prosecutes more people than the feds do. And probation terms for California state probationers apparently vary depending on whether the defendant was convicted of a felony or misdemeanor offense and other details, including any specific terms of probation that the court may have attached that go beyond the usual stuff, as happens in some cases. Also, it's not clear whether the guest was on probation or parole. In any event, whether on federal or state supervision, the guest needs to look at his particular terms of supervision to figure out where he stands with regard to searches by officers.

 

[quincy]

Here is California law (click “next >>” to review Code section):
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=1203.&lawCode=PEN

 

[NeilTheCop]

California
When conducting a probation search of a residence, under what circumstances may officers detain visitors?
It was just a regular routine search there was no reason to believe that probationer had violated the terms of his probation. While speaking with probationer at the front door, the deputies determined that a guest was also in the house. So they ordered both men to step outside where they were pat searched, detained and directed to sit on the front porch. Only TEN minutes later deputies ran a warrant check on the guest and where informed that he also was on Post-Release Community Supervision.

What reason did the probation officer give as to why they wanted to search the house?
Your statement that the probationer was being interviewed at the front door could lead someone to believe that the PO saw or smelt something in the house that justified a search.

 

[quincy]

What reason did the probation officer give as to why they wanted to search the house?
Your statement that the probationer was being interviewed at the front door could lead someone to believe that the PO saw or smelt something in the house that justified a search.

It sounds as if a “regular routine search” was one of the conditions for probation. If so, there would be no need to justify the search.

 

[NeilTheCop]

It sounds as if a “regular routine search” was one of the conditions for probation. If so, there would be no need to justify the search.

I understand, but when I was working with the PO's here, we would not have a friendly chat on the doorstep before deciding to search.
We would go straight in because we didn't want to give them the opportunity to dispose of anything.
Perhaps the OP can tell us if anything was found during the search.

 

[Zigner]

A short detention to identify a person who is visiting a probationer is legal. Furthermore, I suspect that one of the terms of YOUR (joehrobin) probation is that you let the police know you are on probation if you have any contact with them and are asked.

 

[quincy]

A short detention to identify a person who is visiting a probationer is legal. Furthermore, I suspect that one of the terms of YOUR (joehrobin) probation is that you let the police know you are on probation if you have any contact with them and are asked.

A standard condition of probation is also to report to your own probation officer any contact of any kind that you have with law enforcement. The visitor should have told the officers he was on probation.

 

[CdwJava]

California has among the most stringent probation conditions in the US. Even the USSC has acknowledged this in some of their rulings.

In short, California law enforcement or probation officers do not need ANY reasonable suspicion or probable cause to detain and search a person on probation or their property and possessions. None. Detaining occupants of a residence and conducting a pat down is a security measure and generally permitted for the safety of the officers. They can certainly also ask for the names of any guests or residents and run them. They cannot COMPEL anyone to offer their name or identifying info in such a circumstance, but, someone on PRCS, parole or probation, could be in violation if they decline to cooperate by identifying themselves.