May officers detain visitors during probation searches?

[ajkroy]

Wouldn't having guests violate the shelter-in-place order current in CA? Would that change the circumstances?

 

[CdwJava]

Wouldn't having guests violate the shelter-in-place order current in CA? Would that change the circumstances?

No, because the sheltering order (arguably) does not have the force of law in California. Some cities and counties are attempting to do this, but their legal justification is questionable.

 

[Just Blue]

Wouldn't having guests violate the shelter-in-place order current in CA? Would that change the circumstances?

That is a good question.

 

[CdwJava]

And, even if it DID violate some local order (and I have not seen one that is clearly lawful), NO ONE would go to jail for it. They're releasing felons and refusing misdemeanors, and encouraging local agencies to "long form" (i.e. write a report and submit for warrant at a later date) nonviolent felonies (a definition which can include sexual assaults and assaults with injury - go figure), so there's no real teeth to any threat from these supposed violations in any event. Even the probation violation is unlikely to result in incarceration beyond what it might take to be passed through and released with a court date.

 

[quincy]

And, even if it DID violate some local order (and I have not seen one that is clearly lawful), NO ONE would go to jail for it. They're releasing felons and refusing misdemeanors, and encouraging local agencies to "long form" (i.e. write a report and submit for warrant at a later date) nonviolent felonies (a definition which can include sexual assaults and assaults with injury - go figure), so there's no real teeth to any threat from these supposed violations in any event. Even the probation violation is unlikely to result in incarceration beyond what it might take to be passed through and released with a court date.

It would be here where it is really important to know all of the facts. Why the person is on probation and how exactly the person violated the terms of probation will matter.

 

[doucar]

how exactly the person violated the terms of probation will matter.
Why would it matter if it was just a routine probation visit and search?

 

[quincy]

how exactly the person violated the terms of probation will matter.
Why would it matter if it was just a routine probation visit and search?

Are you asking me that question, doucar?

An example: There was a routine probation search in California recently that led to the arrest of the probationer and four others. Not only was the probationer associating with prohibited persons (alleged gang members) but the routine probation search turned up a cache of illegal weapons.

 

[CdwJava]

It would be here where it is really important to know all of the facts. Why the person is on probation and how exactly the person violated the terms of probation will matter.

I assume you mean the question of a custodial arrest. Well, unless there was a new serious, violent felony, the jail will almost certainly NOT accept the booking for a probation violation. Booking someone on a VOP alone is already a difficult thing to do in most counties (thank you AB 109 and Props 47 & 57). Now, with COVID-19 on the loose, jails are refusing bookings for virtually all misdemeanors and even releasing felonies. The odds of someone being on probation for a serious violent felony is somewhere between slim and none. If the person had been released on a serious or violent felony they might enter into PRCS, but they would not be, strictly speaking, on probation. Assuming the OP's statement is accurate, the "guest" was on PRCS, but the resident was on probation. And, even if on PRCS, the same booking limitations apply today. Most the agencies in the state are unable to book people for most anything right now.

 

[quincy]

I assume you mean the question of a custodial arrest. Well, unless there was a new serious, violent felony, the jail will almost certainly NOT accept the booking for a probation violation. Booking someone on a VOP alone is already a difficult thing to do in most counties (thank you AB 109 and Props 47 & 57). Now, with COVID-19 on the loose, jails are refusing bookings for virtually all misdemeanors and even releasing felonies. The odds of someone being on probation for a serious violent felony is somewhere between slim and none. If the person had been released on a serious or violent felony they might enter into PRCS, but they would not be, strictly speaking, on probation. Assuming the OP's statement is accurate, the "guest" was on PRCS, but the resident was on probation. And, even if on PRCS, the same booking limitations apply today. Most the agencies in the state are unable to book people for most anything right now.

There are certainly differences in how offenses of almost all kinds are being handled by law enforcement officers today, because of Covid-19. I think that is true in many (not all) states.

 

[joehrobin]

California
Does a probationer perform criminal omission by not telling his probation officer that the guest at his house is possessing and distributing narcotics?

 

[Taxing Matters]

Detaining occupants of a residence and conducting a pat down is a security measure and generally permitted for the safety of the officers.

However, I would say that a guest not under supervision ought not be detained — that is, if he wants to leave while the officers do the search he should be free to do so, absent the required reasonable suspicion needed for a Terry stop. After all, as to him, he does not give up his Constitutional rights simply by being in the home of a person on probation or parole.

 

[Taxing Matters]

California
Does a probationer perform criminal omission by not telling his probation officer that the guest at his house is possessing and distributing narcotics?

Is the buying and selling of the drugs occurring at the probationer's house? And is the probationer one of those buying or selling the drugs?

 

[CdwJava]

However, I would say that a guest not under supervision ought not be detained — that is, if he wants to leave while the officers do the search he should be free to do so, absent the required reasonable suspicion needed for a Terry stop. After all, as to him, he does not give up his Constitutional rights simply by being in the home of a person on probation or parole.

True enough. But, we do not know what was said or indicated by the parties involved. He may well have gone along with the program ... and then, of course, in this case the guest WAS under supervision and identified as being on PRCS so that would have ended any question at that point. For safety purposes, a detention can be permitted. Having personally been the subject of a parolee's pal leaving and returning with a gun, I'm going to err on keeping my backside safe. Survival is a good lesson, and it tends to work as justification in court out here as well.

 

[quincy]

It was also said: “While speaking with probationer at the front door, the deputies determined that a guest was also in the house.”

It was not said how this was determined. The actions or words of the guest might have given the police cause to detain him.

Wouldn't having guests violate the shelter-in-place order current in CA? Would that change the circumstances?

Here is a link to an article from Time on California’s state shelter-in-place order, and what it means for Californians:
https://time.com/5806477/what-is-shelter-in-place/

 

[Just Blue]

joehrobin said:
California
Does a probationer perform criminal omission by not telling his probation officer that the guest at his house is possessing and distributing narcotics?




From Joe's other (reported) thread. ^^

 

[quincy]

joehrobin said:
California
Does a probationer perform criminal omission by not telling his probation officer that the guest at his house is possessing and distributing narcotics?




From Joe's other (reported) thread. ^^

This latest question was sort of addressed already but I can say with some certainty that the probationer and his guest both violated the terms of their respective probations.