APS created a case based on malicious anonymous report, my family wants to protect its rights

[neotenousgoodbye]

This is a question for Elder Law.

A malicious person in the building my father lives in contacted social services in my state (New York), which then contacted APS, which made a case against my father. They sent him a letter that they may investigate him.

But he has not been charged with any crime. We do not need their services and do not want to contact them.

My father and I live together, but he is independent, healthy for his age, and everyone in my family cares about one another.

How can we get them to drop their ridiculous case?

Thank you,
NYC.

 

[adjusterjack]

That's easy. Have a lawyer lined up and when APS phones or comes to your door decline to talk without the advice of a lawyer.

Watch this video. The same thing applies to any investigative authority that applies to cops.

The minute you try to explain things or answer even one question you start talking yourself into big trouble.

 

[neotenousgoodbye]

That's easy. Have a lawyer lined up and when APS phones or comes to your door decline to talk without the advice of a lawyer.

Watch this video. The same thing applies to any investigative authority that applies to cops.

The minute you try to explain things or answer even one question you start talking yourself into big trouble.

Thank you for your response, adjusterjack.

I've never heard of such an organization before. How is it possible that they have any legal powers to investigate non-crimes? I looked up some information about them online and couldn't find much information other than that they are a branch of social services that investigates potential abuse or mistreatment of vulnerable and elderly people.

How is this even legal/legitimate? They don't seem to be any branch of L.E. There is no accusation of any crime.

Do they need to produce a search warrant or notice of eviction to legally enter your home, and can they break down your door if you refuse to let them in without either of those two documents?

What would be the difference between hiring a lawyer and not hiring one?

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you for your response, adjusterjack.

I've never heard of such an organization before. How is it possible that they have any legal powers to investigate non-crimes? I looked up some information about them online and couldn't find much information other than that they are a branch of social services that investigates potential abuse or mistreatment of vulnerable and elderly people.

How is this even legal/legitimate? They don't seem to be any branch of L.E. There is no accusation of any crime.

Do they need to produce a search warrant or notice of eviction to legally enter your home, and can they break down your door if you refuse to let them in without either of those two documents?

What would be the difference between hiring a lawyer and not hiring one?

They cannot enter your home if you say no. However, if you say no they can try to get a court order to remove your father and bring the police to your door to help them enforce the court order if they are able to get one. That is why its a good idea to either have an attorney lined up or to cooperate with them if you truly have nothing to hide.

 

[CdwJava]

Adult Protective Services is a social services agency much like Child Protective Services. Depending on how it is organized where you are in New York, it could be made up of people from social services who do a rotation in the APS assignment as part of their job as a social worker. They are not, per se, law enforcement, though they can conduct investigations and pursue cases in Family or civil courts. As has been stated, you do not have to speak with them and they cannot enter without a warrant or some form of probable cause coupled with exigent circumstances. Not speaking to them, however, will likely cause the case to remain open indefinitely. Having an open case may not be a problem for you, but, it will mean that they will always be hovering around or looking for something. You may want to consult an attorney and decide if the better course of action might be to let them talk to all of you, look around, and have them close out their case and be done with it.

 

[Maymee]

or to cooperate with them if you truly have nothing to hide.

I don’t even recommend it then. I’ve witnessed too many people who “had nothing to hide” wind up in a mess because authorities twisted their words and actions in order to do what they had already decided needed to be done versus looking at the facts then deciding what’s best.

OP, take AJ’s advice. Lawyer up. Good officers and other authorities understand why someone would invoke this right and will work with it.

In NY, even the city, it’s my understanding most attorneys are offering consultations by phone or video chat. Don’t put off seeking advice, go ahead and line things up now.

 

[neotenousgoodbye]

I don’t even recommend it then. I’ve witnessed too many people who “had nothing to hide” wind up in a mess because authorities twisted their words and actions in order to do what they had already decided needed to be done versus looking at the facts then deciding what’s best.

OP, take AJ’s advice. Lawyer up. Good officers and other authorities understand why someone would invoke this right and will work with it.

In NY, even the city, it’s my understanding most attorneys are offering consultations by phone or video chat. Don’t put off seeking advice, go ahead and line things up now.

Thank you very much for your advice.

Thank you to everyone else who responded, it is a big help and we are grateful.

Yes, I agree about the 'noting to hide' concept in this case, because there is no crime or accusation of crime. There was no reason at all to initiate such a case.

We have already spoken with one attorney and wish to speak to one or two others before we decide on one.

Again, thank you to everyone for the very helpful advice.

If anyone else wishes to contribute advice that may be helpful to us minimize contact with these people, please post it.

 

[CdwJava]

Understand that if there is a report of an allegation of abuse or neglect against a person that fits within the agency's mandate for APS investigations, they are bound by policy (and in some cases, state law) to look into it. Since you asked in your original post how you can get them to drop the case, let me leave you with this:

If you shut down and circle the wagons without any cooperation, they won't be able to close the matter out and you won't be able to get them to "drop" the investigation. I have seen these cases remain open and investigated for many months and even years when they are not getting cooperation. That doesn't mean they can do anything to you, but, they likely will continue to sniff around until they are satisfied that the report is unfounded, or they find evidence to support allegations of abuse or neglect.

You have every right not to speak to them or cooperate in any way. But, understand that will mean they might continue to poke around.

 

[neotenousgoodbye]

Final revision of my questions for this thread:

Elder Law / APS Question: How do I challenge the advances and offers of APS services for my healthy, competent, and able elderly father?

I currently live with my father in his 80s in a rental building in NYC. Somebody in our building sent a malicious, unsubstantiated, anonymous report to the social services organization about my father, essentially claiming that he was living in unsanitary conditions.

Said social services organization sent a social worker out to investigate. She came to the building twice. She asked him if he needed anything or if she could help. He thanked her, said he was Ok and that was it. She did not ask to come inside the apartment. He thought she was from a volunteer organization which helps people obtain food or other assistance during the current pandemic.

Last week, APS sent my father a letter, stating that he is eligible for protective services. In the letter, they invoke law XXXX, effectively stating that he has met all 3 criterial to be eligible for protective services: 1. Mental or physical impairment, causing 2. an inability to care for self (neglect/abuse), and 3. have no-one available to assist them.

Without going into detail, my father unequivocally does not meet any of the 3 criteria. He is active, mentally and physically healthy, and independent. I live with him and help him. My brother (his son) is a successful professional who lives out of state and also supports him in various ways.

Finding out that APS has taken on his case has caused my father incredible angst and stress, believing that APS will take away his independence. Our objective is to reject their offer of taking him on as a client and to close their case.

We already have an appointment scheduled with a neurologist to demonstrate his cognitive capacity. We would like to get your opinion on how to proceed thereafter. Specifically:

1. Does this case warrant retaining counsel, or do you think that this is fairly straightforward and be accomplished on our own? If the former, where do you suppose would be the best way to search for said attorney?

2. If we attempt to resolve this case on our own, what should our strategy be? Our thoughts were to mail them a letter, stating that we would like to reject their services, and including documentation that supports our position. Does this seem reasonable, and if so, what would you recommend using as our evidence? The neurologic cognitive assessment is one; anything else that you suggest would demonstrate that my father does not meet the 3 conditions to qualify for APS listed above?

Any other suggestions would be very helpful!

Thank you,
NYC

 

[Zigner]

You're saying that your dad was offered services that he does not need, and his (and your) response is not simply "no thanks"?

 

[LdiJ]

You're saying that your dad was offered services that he does not need, and his (and your) response is not simply "no thanks"?

I agree that a simple "no thanks" in writing might be a good first step. You might even include information that you believe that the report was made by a malicious tenant of your father's, and explain why. They are actually used to malicious reports and will note that. If that doesn't work then a letter from his doctor stating that he has no physical or mental impairments and that he has live in family would be a good second step.

 

[CdwJava]

If APS intends to take action against you or remove your father from your care, they have to prove their case, you don't have to make excuses.

The letter your father received was likely a form letter that the agency is required to send out to clients after such an investigation. Out here, when we respond to CPS or APS allegations, there are copious forms, pamphlets and documents we are supposed to provide - I imagine it is the same out there. That letter may be the end of their involvement.

If there is nothing untoward going on, and dad is fine, cared for, and able to provide for his basic needs, there should be no cause to worry. APS has to investigate, it sounds as if they may have done that and the letter may be all that is needed to close the matter out.

 

[commentator]

I keep getting a strange reaction to your posting, it's too defensive. I mean, first, "a malicious person" called in. Your father was caused "incredible angst and stress." Oh come on! Our objective of getting them to close their case is overblown. What do you want, a promise they'll never bother you again? Doesn't work that way. If I was an investigator and I got this much wild over-reaction, it would make me more, not less, likely to let it alone and decide there was nothing to see here. Get your dad evaluated. Don't write them any letters. Just take care of him. A visit from an agency shouldn't cause the elderly person "incredible angst and stress" unless you, the caregivers have jacked it up by reacting so defensively.

 

[stealth2]

If I was an investigator and I got this much wild over-reaction, it would make me more, not less, likely to let it alone

Actually... less likely to leave it alone.

 

[neotenousgoodbye]

I keep getting a strange reaction to your posting, it's too defensive. I mean, first, "a malicious person" called in. Your father was caused "incredible angst and stress." Oh come on! Our objective of getting them to close their case is overblown. What do you want, a promise they'll never bother you again? Doesn't work that way. If I was an investigator and I got this much wild over-reaction, it would make me more, not less, likely to let it alone and decide there was nothing to see here. Get your dad evaluated. Don't write them any letters. Just take care of him. A visit from an agency shouldn't cause the elderly person "incredible angst and stress" unless you, the caregivers have jacked it up by reacting so defensively.

So if you were being investigated for an issue not related to accusations of a crime, by an agency with the full power of the law behind it, with no clear understanding of how the matter may go or what your rights are, you would not be feeling a little stressed out? Perhaps if you could put yourself in the place of an elderly person with few resources, little or no social support, legal help that is expensive and difficult to navigate, etc you may see the matter from a completely different perspective.

Also, finding information like this online probably would not serve to make one more empowered and confident: